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Do Turntables provide the best bang for $ for $?

C

charles 1973

Super Member
I had put my Turntable away for several years listening to CD's FM radio and Spotify Premium. Partly because I like the convince, especially with streaming music. And was quite satisfied. Well today I connected it back up and played CCR's "Chronicle" double LP set. I was very surprised at just how good LP's can sound. All the instruments just seem to have more presence then either my CD's or Spotify. And I've got 4x as much $ in the CD/DAC then my Turntable/Cartridge/Preamp.

To be fair this was not a very scientific assessment, but it makes me wonder how much we would have to spend today to get the sound quality of even a budget TT like the Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Evo with digital, Either CD or Streaming. Or is there really a magic to LP's that can't be duplicated, no matter how much money we spend.

I still plan on buying a good, Cambridge CX - N digital music streamer to enjoy the convenience of Spotify Premium. It should prove interesting to compare it with my TT.
 
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Other choices include Tidal for lossless up to 44/16 while Apple Music and Amazon also offer up to 192/24 lossless. Best choice involves music selection and integration to players.

There's really no longer any practical reason to compromise audio quality.
 
No. Analog as a general rule is expensive, and getting more expensive. CD are dirt cheap at the moment, and digital streaming gives you vast variety. There are many affordable and high quality DAC out there, and computer audio gives you a ton of flexibility.
 
Do Turntables provide the best bang for $ for $?
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No. The worst! The maintenance and sanitary hassle, the sensitivity to extrinsic disturbances and interference, the wear out of the playback gear, not to mention the wear of the media itself, makes this one of the most expensive choices in the audio playback domain.

You are correct! This wasn't a very scientific assessment. There's way more than science to turntables and vinyl. In fact, even that extra thing is now being explained with a whole new branch of science called 'psycho-acoustics', which is a mixture of audio and psychology.

If it was a scientific assessment, your question would actually be reversed and read 'what would it take to spend on a TT to make it equivalent to digital?' The scientific answer to that is that it simply can't compare.

Technically, due the limits of dynamic range of music stored on vinyl LP's, the best and cleanest turntable output ever could be digitally expressed with word depth consisting of 11 bits, as opposed to CD red book's 16 bits. In real life, and in practice, it's not capable of the same reproduction levels as digital audio in terms of storing and reading audio information. But that's apparently not what counts!

There's something about vinyl playback that drops jaws. Not only yours. Turntables are the preferred playback devices and vinyl is the choice media of many, as this forum proves by it's longevity and volume of posts. The 2nd coming of vinyl resurgence from the early 2000's lives on and still proliferates to this day. There's no denying that looking at graphs of annual vinyl sales.

There's definitely something about turntables appeal that regular empiric science just can't explain, hence a need for 'psycho-acoustics'. Still, if you're looking at it from a nominal point of view with objective quantifying of audio quality per dollar invested - you couldn't possibly do worst than by choosing a turntable.
 
Agree w all the above & still prefer my vinyl rig to Amazon HD.
But full disclosure, I have a lot more invested in analog than streaming or CDs - so LPs damn well better sound good.
If the expense or quality of the playback equipment were equal...............?
 
The expense and the inconvenience. You cannot beat that.

I use Spotify premium on the move, and sometimes on the main rig too. Do I like the music? Do I want to buy it? Sometimes yes, sometimes no.
To check if you hear the difference try converting a 24/96 (or 192) that you know well to mp3 320 and make someone do an ABX test with you as the listener. 11 times should do for a significant result if you pick 9 out of the 11 correctly.
The fun part starts afterwards: Which one do you like the best?
 
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If you are one of the rare birds who can get into vinyl but be content with a decent player and good but affordable MM cartridge - then vinyl can be a very affordable music medium.

But if you are like most of us, and trip spastically down the rabbit hole, you will in no time want an exemplary table and arm, an expensive LOMC cartridge, an esoteric SUT, a tube phono preamp, and multiple copies of your favourite 250 LPs. Some pressings will cost more than your first turntable and cartridge combined.

The good news is there are fantastic sounding tube preamps available today for low $$$. Good luck on the rest, though!
 
charles 1973 said:
. . . it makes me wonder how much we would have to spend today to get the sound quality of even a budget TT like the Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Evo with digital, Either CD or Streaming. Or is there really a magic to LP's that can't be duplicated, no matter how much money we spend.
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I think there's something special about vinyl playback that makes music more compelling than any digital source I've heard, and that this happens at surprisingly low price points. As What HiFi mentioned in their review of the AT-LP120-USB, even that budget model "demonstrates the sort of deft facility with timing and rhythmic organisation that makes vinyl many listeners' format of choice." Though from a rather old article, I still agree with Martin Colloms when he wrote, "With analog, one can listen through the blemishes and be aware of a strong musical message, one in which the music's flow, pace, and tempo are well conveyed, and into which the listener is drawn. By contrast, digital audio is a fragile medium. Sonic greatness remains elusive. . ." https://www.stereophile.com/reference/23/index.html
 
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JP said:
Second half of the 19th century is new?
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It was probably known as 'psychophysics' back then, so...

Late Boomer said:
Monty said, 13. But whatever.
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Chris Montgomery? It's not important what he said, albeit very interesting as always, it's what Nyquist & Shannon said that counts and their math is the constant in this affair. The rest is just endless nitpicking over what frequencies are stored on vinyl, and what the dynamic range of the media could possibly be - not to mention what frequencies are there and who needs all of them anyway. There's no real answer to the vinyl word depth in bits conundrum. The variables are just that - they vary based on who's doing the math. Monty probably takes fat margins into account, just the same as red book's 16 bits are an exaggerated overkill.
 
I listen mainly to vinyl. And use Spotify or Pandora for times I need to stream. Last night I signed up for Qobuz 30day trial. I pulled up Steely Dan, Aja and listened to the "Hi-Rez" stream and compared it to the vinyl version. While both sounded great, the mix was different. Some instruments in one medium were more pronounced than the other medium. And vice versa. Which probably came down to if the Qobuz version was a "Remaster" from a different time. The vinyl version was an original pressing. I do have two more copies of Aja which are from different releases. So I may compare all. I did the same comparison with The Tubes "Young and Rich" album and had the same results.
But back to the original post, financially I would say CD's or Streaming would be the best bang for the buck. But the experience of spinning vinyl is "Priceless" !!!! Plus it sounds smoother and less fatiguing !!!
 
Vinyl is expensive and inconvenient. Buying used vinyl can often be disappointing due to physical condition of the media. Buying new vinyl can be disappointing sometimes. I just returned a new, still shrink wrapped album to Amazon due to melt spots in the vinyl disc!

You have get up every 20 minutes to turn the record to side B, dust off side B, dust off the stylus, and lower the tonearm.

Playing high quality vinyl is extremely satisfying. The music reproduction of excellent vinyl on a very good system is a satori experience. Only you can weigh the benefits vs the expense and frustrations of investing in vinyl.

JMHO
 
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