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"Do turntables sound different" comparison video

Will vintage turntables (similar to the design of those shown in the video) have a different sound?

  • Total voters
    12
Bo Smith

Bo Smith

New Member
We primarily are listening to cartridges at this price point, many say, and I was wondering how true that is.

I put a ton of work into my latest YouTube video where I shootout two similar vintage turntables and see what's different: Technics SL-D2 & Kenwood KD-3070

Let me know what you think.

Also doing a giveaway, check out the details in the video.

Thanks for watching!


Timestamps are in the comment section...
All of the gear that I use is in the video description.

My intent is not to start a war here. All I want you to know is that your turntable, as long as it's spinning at the correct speed, and tracking properly, and sounds good to YOU, is excellent. Enjoy the music.

Here are the raw comparison.WAV files: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/uwp9ote08guh4eo/AAC5WtQzJ0KcH9Q8ZyZuNE75a?dl=0
(I do not own these songs, all rights reserved. For demonstration purposes only.)

A great way to blind test these files:
Software:https://www.foobar2000.org/download
Add-On Component:https://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_abx
 
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I think its cool you made this video for the people who have limited funds and worry about getting the most for their money.

And its cool to see the younger generation showing the passion about this hobby.

Wait till you do have more disposable income, the rabbit hole is long and deep.

Remember theres magic in them grooves !

And post your location, might be an AK're near buy with a high end system and invite you over for a listen so you can see what its all about.

Athanasios
 
Comparisons of turntables' impact on sonics (if any) will absolutely require using the same arm and cartridge, so that the turntable is the only variable.

Otherwise the titular video is asking/addressing a different question than "do turntables sound different?" -- i.e., "do n different record playing systems sound different?".

Also, quantitative measurements (wow, flutter, rumble, level and spectral distribution of harmonic distortion, other measurable distortions, frequency response, etc) will probably display differences better (and more reliably) than compressed YT audio, I would think.
(ahh, just saw WAV files, which should be better).
 
Nashou66 said:
I think its cool you made this video for the people who have limited funds and worry about getting the most for their money.

And its cool to see the younger generation showing the passion about this hobby.

Wait till you do have more disposable income, the rabbit hole is long and deep.

Remember theres magic in them grooves !

And post your location, might be an AK're near buy with a high end system and invite you over for a listen so you can see what its all about.

Athanasios
Click to expand...
Thanks for the kind words. I really can't wait for COVID to be through and I am able to hear some high end systems at stores near me. I heard a few in passing but never was able to compare with gear I have on hand.
 
mhardy6647 said:
Comparisons of turntables' impact on sonics (if any) will absolutely require using the same arm and cartridge, so that the turntable is the only variable.

Otherwise the titular video is asking/addressing a different question than "do turntables sound different?" -- i.e., "do n different record playing systems sound different?".

Also, quantitative measurements (wow, flutter, rumble, level and spectral distribution of harmonic distortion, other measurable distortions, frequency response, etc) will probably display differences better (and more reliably) than compressed YT video, I would think.
Click to expand...
The raw .WAV files are posted in the video description and commented above.
I was really just trying to compare two different turntables with the same affixed gear (cart, headshell, etc).
Turntables in this budget don't allow for (easily) swapping of arms, therefore I had to make due with what I have.
The wow and flutter etc. did not seem to make any audible difference in my testing.
 
Cool video, thanks for posting it :thumbsup:. One thing to note. Is with that Dire Straits pressing of that album the mastering was done with Sibilance on a few tracks (Six Blade Knife) which is one of my reference tracks has it . However, with the new MFSL pressing they have corrected the sibilance issue and it’s no longer there.

So although you found your cart wasn’t quite tracking the sss sounds well part of that was actually the master recording , just an FYI.

Audiofreak71
 
Valiant effort on your part. It can be really tough to do head to head comparisons without the benefit of a very high resolution system that can reveal subtle differences....and even then, the system can still impart it's opinion. So many variables in play! Nicely done. Your switcher stick is genius!
 
knotscott said:
Valiant effort on your part. It can be really tough to do head to head comparisons without the benefit of a very high resolution system that can reveal subtle differences. So many variables in play! Nicely done. Your switcher stick is genius!
Click to expand...

Yeah, At first I thought the dumbbell was there for EMI/RFI Isolation or something ;)

Nashou
 
at the price point of the cartridges you have chosen I can't disagree with you. Better cartridges with better more sophisticated styli playing limited production direct to disc recordings with easily 10 db more dynamic range would reveal differences. Better speakers and electronic would help too. Its pretty hard to give a critical evaluation using mid-fi components. But I can't fault your conclusions given the parameters you have chosen. If all the links in the chain are weak in producing sound then weak turntables issues aren't going to be revealed.. The basic turntables them selves are really much better than tables from the 60's and some from the early 70's. But the arms are the issue for me on both tables. And both being semi automatics rub me the wrong way, too. My favorite turntable to have never owned is a Technic SL1000 Mk III, that we sold a few of when new. But I would prefer a SL1000R today with a SME MK V arm. Anyone got close to 20 grand so I could get a great cartridge, too. ?
 
I am not a person of too many words, but IMO I can here the Kenwood more precise in sound.
It can be bearings tonearm or cart/tonearm match, etc.
Great video indeed. It will help a lot of undecided people.
Thanks for sharing!
Andre.
 
Audiofreak71 said:
Cool video, thanks for posting it :thumbsup:. One thing to note. Is with that Dire Straits pressing of that album the mastering was done with Sibilance on a few tracks (Six Blade Knife) which is one of my reference tracks has it . However, with the new MFSL pressing they have corrected the sibilance issue and it’s no longer there.

So although you found your cart wasn’t quite tracking the sss sounds well part of that was actually the master recording , just an FYI.

Audiofreak71
Click to expand...
Thanks a lot for the info! Feel free to also leave a comment on the video to be entered in the giveaway. Cheers
 
twiiii said:
at the price point of the cartridges you have chosen I can't disagree with you. Better cartridges with better more sophisticated styli playing limited production direct to disc recordings with easily 10 db more dynamic range would reveal differences. Better speakers and electronic would help too. Its pretty hard to give a critical evaluation using mid-fi components. But I can't fault your conclusions given the parameters you have chosen. If all the links in the chain are weak in producing sound then weak turntables issues aren't going to be revealed.. The basic turntables them selves are really much better than tables from the 60's and some from the early 70's. But the arms are the issue for me on both tables. And both being semi automatics rub me the wrong way, too. My favorite turntable to have never owned is a Technic SL1000 Mk III, that we sold a few of when new. But I would prefer a SL1000R today with a SME MK V arm. Anyone got close to 20 grand so I could get a great cartridge, too. ?
Click to expand...
Thanks for writing. Yes, I definitely do not have reference level gear, I would love to put this to the test using high end components. I think the only part lacking with these turntables is the arm, (cartridge aside) but it's quite difficult to swap arms on these. Do you think upgrading and soldering new OCC wires would help?
 
Andre Garcia said:
I am not a person of too many words, but IMO I can here the Kenwood more precise in sound.
It can be bearings tonearm or cart/tonearm match, etc.
Great video indeed. It will help a lot of undecided people.
Thanks for sharing!
Andre.
Click to expand...
Andre, thanks for checking out the video. The two WAV files look different - my ears just couldn't detect a difference! I thought at first there were changes but quick A/B switching and also blind ADX testing via Foobar really made it impossible for me to decide. No changes in my opinion. I'm glad we can talk about what we hear, everyone has been super civil and respectful. Thanks again.
 
Bo Smith said:
Andre, thanks for checking out the video. The two WAV files look different - my ears just couldn't detect a difference! I thought at first there were changes but quick A/B switching and also blind ADX testing via Foobar really made it impossible for me to decide. No changes in my opinion. I'm glad we can talk about what we hear, everyone has been super civil and respectful. Thanks again.
Click to expand...
I asked my wife, my reference when I am fine tuning my TT, she said the pioneer is more cristal when the Kenwood has more “round sound” i guess not dull but no harsh. We played it through my phone.
AG.
 
I've done a few head-to-head-to-head comparisons between various turntables over the years. I could probably dig up some of the audio files (recorded directly from my preamp into my PC), if anyone's interested. In one blind test, I picked out a high-end vintage exotic from the golden years (Pioneer PL-L1000), an often-dismissed entry-level direct drive (Audio Technica AT-LP120USB), and a random $8 thrift-shop record changer (Garrard SL65B), and asked a group of audiophiles to pick out which one sounded best. All ran the same cartridge (a nice ADC) into a nice phono preamp, with a variety of music. Some pop, some jazz, some rap, some classical, etc. to cover all the bases since everyone has their own music tastes, and trying to make people discern the differences in a song they've never heard before would just be pointless. Some were pristine pressings, others were well-loved inner-groove tracks.

In the end, the Audio Technica was tied with the fancy Pioneer, and the little old Garrard wasn't far behind! Most of them could "hardly tell a difference". How on earth could that be?! Well, the differences between any properly designed turntable are just that subtle. Sure yeah, you can look at a spectral analysis and see some differences, but the fact of the matter is that the actual sonic playing field is a bit more level than you would think. Now of course, I would absolutely expect the Pioneer to take a much fancier cartridge and sound utterly fantastic, just based on the amount of technology that went into it's linear tonearm, but who really knows how much worse the Audio Technica or the Garrard would sound? And what if I threw a $40,000 turntable into the mix? Or even a digital file? Would it reign supreme over those humble little record players? Guess we'll never truly know.

In general, I think that the real differences between *properly* designed turntables are primarily aesthetic or material. The sonic differences mostly seem to come down to differences in cable capacitance (making one sound more "open" or "closed off" than another), speed accuracy (faster="punchy", slower="relaxed"), pitch stability, and of course, proper setup. S-arms vs. J-arms vs. linear arms, direct vs. belt vs. idler drive, all likely pale in comparison to good looks and good ergonomics for 99% of people. After all, what good is the greatest sounding turntable you've ever heard if the cue lever sends the arm flying in the air or dropping it like a rock, looks like a 90s food processor, and skips everytime the cat uses the litter box?

Back on topic, I think I like the Technics just a little bit better, but again, the differences are so minute. They both sound great!
 
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