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Does a tt mat really make a difference in sound ?

Pjsjr - I'm fairly certain that the rubber mat that came on my XA is not original. it's black, heavy, and about 3/16" thick. I don;t think AR tt's came with mats like this.

I listened to more LPs tonight and there is definitely an audible difference with the new thinner mat (carbon fiber and felt) It;s at least half the thickness of the black rubber one.

I researched proper vta for the M97XE, and everything I could find said that it was designed to properly align if mounted in a headshell with no shims. The headshell on my tt appears to track completely horizontally on an LP, so I don;t really know what else I should check. overhang, according to the AR manual and protractor, is set OK.

other posts I have seen have said that the bottom of the cartridge should be parallel to the LP surface. The M97XE seems to be different, in that the design of the aluminum mounting bracket appears to be deliberately set to give the correct vta when mounted in a standard headshell mount - and there is no dimension on the cartridge itself that aligns horizontally with the LP when mounted in the headshell.

if someone has guidance on aligning an M97XE in an AR XA headshell, I would appreciate it. Otherwise, sound coming from the system sounds really great.

thanks - Jim
 
I just completed refurbushing a Dual 1219 [for a customer]. He supplied an AT440MLa, which I installed with the smallest spacers. I also pulled the rubber mat, and supplied both a thin shelf-liner mat, and a thicker shelf-liner mat. The two mats give the option of three different tracking angles. This made it really easy to find the correct height. A tiny height difference can and almost always makes huge difference in sound.

I agree with others that height differences offer more changes to sound than mat differences.
 
conaway said:
...if someone has guidance on aligning an M97XE in an AR XA headshell...Jim
Click to expand...

Jim, I set my AR XA with the Shure M97xE according to the protactor that came with the cartridge.

If your happy with the sound of yours then I think your set up is complete. Preston
Here's a pic of mine...
 
I never really cared for the felt mats that came with Rega tables. On my VPI table, I prefer going naked on the acrylic platter. So sexy! :D
 
IME the answer is certainly yes. I've found anything is better than rubber, and felt isn't much better. Cork has always worked really well in my systems, and now I use the Herbie's mat, but that's a bit pricey.
 
My Rega Planar 3 came with a out a mat. I was going to order a stock felt mat, but over the holiday I was with my wife shopping in Hobby Lobby. I went to the craft section to see what felt they had. Bought a sheet of stiff felt for 79 cents. Cut out a matt & it seems to be a perfect match with my Rega & OM30.
 
an interesting experiment is cut a mat the same size as the label approx 90/95 mm diam & play with no record support at all - needs a weight though
 
gary7 said:
My Rega Planar 3 came with a out a mat. I was going to order a stock felt mat, but over the holiday I was with my wife shopping in Hobby Lobby. I went to the craft section to see what felt they had. Bought a sheet of stiff felt for 79 cents. Cut out a matt & it seems to be a perfect match with my Rega & OM30.
Click to expand...

The Planar with the glass platter? I believe that's supposed to be used without a mat.
 
Flammaster said:
I usually stand on one foot when listening that also helps.
Click to expand...

I tried that, but I lost the stereo separation; it sounded mono.

I tried standing on my head, but there was phase inversion.

I tried balancing right on the edge of my sofa to listen, but there was too much roll-off.




Okay, enough tripe. Almost everything about a turntable can have SOME effect on the sound. The stylus; the cantilever; the cartridge (type, specific model; quality and condition); the tonearm; how well stylus, cartridge and tonearm work together; how the cartridge is mounted to the headshell; how the headshell is mounted to the tonearm; how the cartridge is wired to/through the tonearm to the phono stage (type of wire, connections, condition; shielding, etc...) how the tonearm is mounted to the plinth; the mat; the platter; the platter bearing; the type of drive; the specifics of the drive design, execution, and condition; the plinth (design, materials, execution and condition); the materials each of the parts are made from, and how they are interfaced; the lubricants used, and the condition they are in; how the tonearm is set up/adjusted (VTA; stylus force; etc..); the output level of the cart and the effective impedance seen by the phono pre, and how well it mates with the phono pre; the feet of the TT; the base that the TT sits on (all the way down to Earth's bedrock); and probably much more --ALL can affect sound.

Some of these things will have more effect than others; how much effect may
be a function of the specific thing in question, or of how it interacts with other things, or (usually) a bit of both.

That's part of what makes it so much fun to "tweak" a TT, and why there are so many tweaks out there. It also explains why what works well for one person may not work so well for another. A cart that sounds great on one arm or with one phono preamp may sound mediocre or bad on/with another; similarly, a mat that sounds great on one TT may sound poor on another.

A few GENERAL guidelines I've found with mats:

(1) Barring deterioration due to age, original mats usually sound better than most replacement mats. It seems most manufacturers manage to do a pretty good job of designing mats that flatter their TT designs.

(2) The unfortunate codicil to the above is that most rubber mats dry up somewhat with age, and unless you find a good rubber restorer to soften them back up, they will not sound like they were meant to. Even with a softener, they may still not sound exactly as original, and the softener might possibly affect records.

(3) The platter underneath the mat is about as important as the mat itself, and sometimes more so. A second-best mat on a great platter will usually sound better than the best mat on a lesser paltter. [To give a specific example, no mat I put on an average mid-fi TT will make it sound as good as the GT-2000 sounds with even the worst-sounding mat I've tried on it; I think the huge, heavy platter has too significant an effect. Of course, I might be able to come up with a mat made of cardboard or styrofoam or balsa wood or something that would do the trick; I'm referring here to normal "mats."]

(4) There is no "right" mat for a given TT. Some may definitely sound better than others, but among the good ones, it often comes down to personal sonic preferences; there is just one that sounds best to you. Also, what sounds good on one platter may sound bad on another; and vice-versa. It's all about subtle synergies.

(5) There are many approaches to dealing with the vinyl/mat/platter interface, from weighting/clamping down (in the center and at the edge) to achieve maximum surface contact, to tiny dots that minimize surface contact, to sucking out a vacuum under the record. There are soft felt mats, medium-soft rubber mats, medium-hard vinyl mats, and hard metal (copper, steel, aluminum) mats. Each has it's uses. Don't dismiss any possible mat Dmaterial, thickness or shape until you have tried it. Mat "sandwiches" made of thin layers of different materials can sometimes work. Sometimes weird DIY mats can bring surprising results. Often, they won't be satisfying results, but sometimes they can be very pleasing, indeed.

As with much in audio, there is no simple answer to the question(s) of "mats." But that's what makes it all so much fun! :yes: :D
 
Mr. Lin said:
The Planar with the glass platter? I believe that's supposed to be used without a mat.
Click to expand...

I think you're right, but a lot of glass platters are supposed to sound good with felt mats on them; might be worth experimenting, since felt is cheap (ordinary non-shedding felt from a fabric-supply place will tell you if it is a suitable material). Other, costlier mats are sometimes supposed to sound better than the felt, too: at the other extreme, I've read at least one person say that they got the best sonic results from putting a mat made from a single sheet of thin paper, cut from an ordinary sheet of A3 copy paper(!) on a glass platter. (Disclaimer: I don't own any glass-platter TTs, myself, so this is all hearsay.)
 
Metal Platters do ring. If you can do it without getting the thing out of balance a little bit of liquid rubber painted on the platter can do wonders. It's available in white or black and when cured, (it's like an epoxy and messy as all get out - don't go anywhere near the turntable with it, pull the platter and then paint it on thin or thick but BALANCE is the key)iIt cures to pure epdm rubber and the platter will not ring once you've applied it. Don't try to hang the platter to cure because you will get it out of balance.

One quart is less than $20.00 plus shipping. They also have it in marine applications in grey but you'll have to search around.

http://www.proguardcoatings.com/store/cart.php?m=product_list&c=3

Could also be used as an undercoating for various other applications. But remember, I warned you, it is MESSY until it dries. And it won't dry under 45 degrees F. But the platter won't ring once you've appied it. I've never seen anyone else using this so I take credit for the idea but anyone could have come up with it. But it's fairly new amd hasn't been around long.

I never heard mats make much difference except they do stop the ringing platter syndrome. If you have any left over you can put it in a plastic bag and put that in the freezer and it won't cure but good luck getting it unfrozen without it curing in the process. It does work though.
 
And by the way, Herbie, I know you mind is spinning like a top right now. You'll find some uses for it. I know you will. Just rememeber the poor boy who recommended epdm rubber in liquid form to you and send a freebie around once his way every now and then when you come up with your breakthrough product
 
Mr. Lin said:
The Planar with the glass platter? I believe that's supposed to be used without a mat.
Click to expand...

Really? I am new to Regas, I bought mine used. Most photos of Regas with the glass platter also have the felt mat. Any AKer's out there use just the glass, no mat? How does it sound compared to use with the mat?
 
I bought a "Sonic Bliss Record Mat" off ekbay. This replaced the rubber mat on my Pioneer PL-115D. It did make a change in the sound. The mat is rubber with a crochet pattern of air holes so you can see the platter. This insulates the disk from the platter. I am happy with the result.
I have no connection with the seller and for less than $20 a good deal.
 
My experience is that glass platters, in general, are best avoided / exchanged / upgraded by acrylic if possible.

Glass platters reduce FR down low and restrict the soundstage width.

"dolph"
 
When I hear the term glass platter, I think acrylic. I didn't know there was such a thing as a real glass platter. I have a Music Hall mmf-5.1 with an alloy platter that is balanced. I just took it of the table and checked it out. Before MH went to the 5.1, the mmf-5 had an acrylic platter. According to MH the alloy was an ugrade. Maybe it was just an upgrade to the bottom line, (read profit here).
 
I have been playing with metal platter damping for years. In my experience [and this has been with Dual, Philips, and Garrard only] a platter can be over-damped. Seems that an absolutely-dead platter can kill the sound, especially if capped with a full-contact mat.
But a dead platter with a spot-mat to liven things back up can work..

You gotta play.
 
classic carl said:
When I hear the term glass platter, I think acrylic. I didn't know there was such a thing as a real glass platter. I have a Music Hall mmf-5.1 with an alloy platter that is balanced. I just took it of the table and checked it out. Before MH went to the 5.1, the mmf-5 had an acrylic platter. According to MH the alloy was an ugrade. Maybe it was just an upgrade to the bottom line, (read profit here).
Click to expand...

The MMF-5's platter was really glass, not acrylic.
 
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