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Does anyone have any experience trying to Drive B&W series 80 801s with a Mac Tube amp?

nj pheonix

nj pheonix

Lunatic Member
Hi, I'm eyeing a nice set of said speakers. Some of what i read seems to say that they need an amp with more damping factor. I was wondering if anyone has tried this set up? I'm thinking specifically of MC 60s but i feel anything from MC 30s to a 275 should give me some kind of idea..
 
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It has been a lot of years but memory says the 801/802s needed a lot of space to sound right. Easy for them to get boomy and muddy sounding as they couple with the too close room boundaries. Then, with a larger 3D space to fill, a pair of MC7270s were just about right, the biamped extra power was wonderful. I doubt if the tube amps have near enough power.

This series was one of the first B&Ws with the soon to get even nastier tough to drive midrange impedence curve. The 4 ohm taps were a must. See JA's Stereophile test measurements over the years.
 
c_dk said:
It has been a lot of years but memory says the 801/802s needed a lot of space to sound right. Easy for them to get boomy and muddy sounding as they couple with the too close room boundaries. Then, with a larger 3D space to fill, a pair of MC7270s were just about right, the biamped extra power was wonderful. I doubt if the tube amps have near enough power.

This series was one of the first B&Ws with the soon to get even nastier tough to drive midrange impedence curve. The 4 ohm taps were a must. See JA's Stereophile test measurements over the years.
Click to expand...

So you're saying these need 540wpc to open up?
while i appreciate your help and your candor that seems excessive. I can't imagine everyone using these is running half of that. If one 7270 wasn't enough, i don't think they could be selling them for 30+ years. IMHO
 
Half of each amp driving the bass, the other half the mid driver and tweeter. Used my MC240s after DOB gave me some of his tube GE6L6GC stash to drive Vandesteen2Cs.

If you are listening at 3 or 4 meters away from the speaker it is amazing how much power can be needed as the space grows expodentually.

The 2Cs would not work well at my home either so I used the much more appropriate 803s for my 12X24 room.

Big is not better when you work thru the room accoutics in most cases.
 
While i think my 352 can drive them, I am think thinking the 60s likely aren't a good match. I tried them a while back with AR9s and was quite underwhelmed. I do really appreciate the help. I'm leaning towards passing, based on different opinions i've gotten.
 
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The 801s can be exceptional loudspeakers IF they couple well with your listening space. How well could they work acoustically with your room.

Any transformer coupled amp will have a relatively low dampening factor because of how it is measured and defined.

But it does make for good ad copy.
 
i checked the 60s have a DF of 12.
According to the specs the 352 has a DF of 40>
IIRC speaker lead length plays a major roll in actual DF. Also IIRC amps with very high DF tend to have very high feedback. While i don't claim to know much about this and there are exceptions to the rule, amps with very high feedback tend to lose some sonic quality. At least my limited observation.
 
OK this will get me in trouble but sometimes......

Still have not answered my question. How well can the 801s work in your room?

I had a number of sales guys over the years that would refuse to visit the customers home to help them determine the correct speakers and location for those speakers to work their best. These guys would also complain insessently about the size of their paychecks .....

Pros worry about speakers interacting with rooms, amateurs argue spec sheets.
 
c_dk said:
It has been a lot of years but memory says the 801/802s needed a lot of space to sound right. Easy for them to get boomy and muddy sounding as they couple with the too close room boundaries. Then, with a larger 3D space to fill, a pair of MC7270s were just about right, the biamped extra power was wonderful. I doubt if the tube amps have near enough power.

This series was one of the first B&Ws with the soon to get even nastier tough to drive midrange impedence curve. The 4 ohm taps were a must. See JA's Stereophile test measurements over the years.
Click to expand...
Even my 804S preferred two MC7270's (mono block mode). Better bass, better soundstage. I love the look and sound of tubes, but feel I'd need to replace my speakers if I wanted a pair of tube amps.
 
c_dk said:
OK this will get me in trouble but sometimes......

Still have not answered my question. How well can the 801s work in your room?

I had a number of sales guys over the years that would refuse to visit the customers home to help them determine the correct speakers and location for those speakers to work their best. These guys would also complain insessently about the size of their paychecks .....

Pros worry about speakers interacting with rooms, amateurs argue spec sheets.
Click to expand...

Without buying them, bringing them home and hooking them up and listening, pretty much no way to say.
I'm more than reasonably sure if I have to buy 2 New amps without OPTs to properly match a pair of speakers I'm considering, I'm considering the wrong speakers.
 
I can see no reason why your MC352 wouldn't deliver breathtaking results with the B&Ws. I mean, why wouldn't it?

On another note, when calculating DF, be sure to include the DCR of the speaker in the calculation . . . then, it's pretty easy to see why DF is somewhat misleading.
 
Are you looking for speakers to match your tube amps or another pair of world class speakers like your KEFs?

How do the KEFs interact with your room?

These two pair of speakers deserve to be the first thing in your listening space. Once they are in the best locations then the furniture comes in.
 
First let me say, the Kefs have had the woofers refoamed, been recapped and had the ferro fluid replaced. While I always thought they had a sweet mid. I also think they roll off on the high end and they don't go super low (very consistent observation. Different rooms, amps, second and third opinions ). I find them pleasant and non fatiguing. I don't think they have great detail.
I'll also be the first to admit the room is less than optimal in both its shape and it's treatment.
While I don't discount placement, and it's importance, there are limits to how much it can improve the sound.
I wish I had the space and budget to build a better listening space, I know how well certain pieces have come together, I feel gives me some kind idea of how good the right combinations can be.
I also don't discount how good these B&Ws might be, i'm not prepared to start from scratch and build a system around them.
Maybe,I went about getting to the end in the wrong manner and I put the cart before the horse. After making mistakes obtaining gear, I feel i've at the very least stumbled across despite myself some very good gear and learned things in the process.
I was thinking for the price of admission on these now, maybe I'll just pick them up, and try them out. Best case scenario I love them . Worst case scenario, I sell them at a small loss and consider it an audition fee and a learning experience.
Thanks to all who have tried to guide me here. If this works out (meaning I get them), I'll report back.
 
B&W speakers are rated around 90 db so 100 watts would give you 110 db at 1 meter or just barely concert level at 4 meters in an average room. That said there wouldn't be any margin for peaks. But most folks don't listen that loudly either. So if your the average guy who listens from 85 to 90 db with 10 db peaks you'll do just fine with 100 watts, But if you like reference recordings, telarc, Original masters or Sheffield recordings, you are going to find your self way short of power. Audio Classics have some 3500's that need a home, or pre-owned 2301's if you want tubes. I would probably be looking for a pair of Solid State 501's or. A Mc 452 would be a great choice to consider. You could spring for MC 601's, too . But I would consider both amps to much for continuous out put for 801 speakers. If the power is to be used just for short peaks, then go ahead. I found 801's to be hard sounding with Crown and Yamaha amps. Mac amps could warm them up a little and take the edge off the highs. But remember to keep the speaker lines very short with the Mac amps as the woofers can bloom a bit with Mac power amps with Autoformers and tube amps with transformers. MY favorite Mac amp with out Autiformers was the MC 7200 though rated at 200 watts 8 ohms and 300 4 ohms . It continuous out put is way way above that. The MC 500, and 602 might be considered if you find have mono amps a problem.
 
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While I didn't think I'd be where I am,(ampwise , not so long ago) if the 352 can't adequately power them, I really don't need them.
 
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I. was wrong!!!!!! The sensitivity is only 85 db 1 meter 1 watt!!!!! That means like Mac speakers you need a ton power! 3000 watts per channel will give you concert level with a 6 db margin for peaks. So the minimum you need for the average listener is if you listen at or around 85 db with 6 db peaks you will need 60 watts/ channel listening at 4 meters with both speakers operating. If your a 90 db listener, then 220 watts per channel. Lets see with a Klipschorn you would need only 32 watts per speaker.
 
OK,
I follow you completely on this and i pretty much assumed this from other things i've read and experienced.
So, Let's try this backwards for a moment, Let's say for arguments sake you have a pair of MC60s,75s or a 275 , and a 2300,2500,2600,72720,302,352, 402 ...you get the gist. You're looking to expand (read improve your current listening experience by way way of speakers) and would like to have the option of enjoying them with both your tube amps and your SS state amps. I accept there are trade offs with trying to maintain both directions (biamping is also an option i haven't explored). So, thinking current product or relatively recent production speakers what path or paths would you suggest? Money is in fact an object here. Value has to figure largely into the equation.
 
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