Does JBL 8330 have similar sound coloration with the Ti series? (120Ti, 4412, etc)

[Kreshna]

My mains are JBL 120Ti (89 dB/watt/meter). My center is JBL 4410 (91 dB/watt/meter). For music, I'm going to use Sansui AU-7900 and Dynaco QD-2. For computer games, I'm going to use Yamaha RX-V663 AV receiver. I also need a DIY 5 channel speaker source selector to switch between the two. Finally, I need is a suitable pair surround speakers, and the "titanium dome theater" is good to go.

The surround speakers should need the following criteria:

(1) they should be more sensitive than the mains, because I will use Dynaco QD-2 for surround music. And the QD-2 surround output is pretty weak, so a more sensitive pair of surround speakers are recommended (if the surround speakers are too loud, I can always use the QD-2 built-in l-pad attenuator).

(2) they should have the same coloration as the mains, because I'll also play computer games on the titanium dome theater. In surround music and Dolby ProLogic sources, the surround speakers are used for ambience. But in computer games, the surround speakers are used for directional sound (from behind). As such, it is important that the surround speakers to have the same coloration as the mains, otherwise the sound will sound disjointed. I tend to agree with this article.


Ideally, of course, the surround speakers should be another pair of JBL 120T'si. But of course, such models aren't easy to find (most ebay sellers do not ship such large and heavy object overseas). However, I found out that JBL Titanium family have similar sound, similar coloration. For example, when I tested a pair of JBL L20T's, my first reacion is, "hey, they are just the smaller version of the 120Ti!"

Of course, the 120Ti's go deeper. Also, during cymbal test (my favorite instrument), the cymbals in L20T's sound louder but harsher. The 120Ti's are also 2dB more sensitive. But if you ignore the nitpicks, the two models sound really similar, especially the mid range. Both models have the same forward vocals, and they have the same sound coloration which frequency response curve simply can't explain.

As such, I guess the ideal surround speakers for me is either a pair of JBL 4412's, or JBL 4410's. Both models are more sensitive than the 120Ti's, and I bet they also sound similar to the 120Ti's. However, they are also hard to find. Again, most ebay sellers do not ship such large and heavy object overseas, and I live in Indonesia.

However, JBL 8330's are always easier to find than 4412's and 4410's. They also seem to be smaller and lighter, since the S/H cost to my country is cheaper. They also have titanium dome tweeter, so I do hope they sound similar to the 120Ti's.

However, frequency curve comparison isn't very encouraging.

The JBL 8330's have slight LF bump. This could be a good thing, because it gives strong bass impression (although fake) from behind, so I probably wouldn't need rear subwoofers. Between 1 kHz and 10 kHz, the jaggy pattern are almost similar to the Ti series. Of course, it is not exactly the same, but JBL 120Ti's and JBL L20T's have different jaggy pattern, and yet the latter sounds almost like the smaller version of the former, as I have explained before.

What worries me is the sudden HF dip around 15 kHz. So perhaps the 8330 doesn't sound as bright as the 120Ti's? Perhaps things like cymbals and shattered glass are not as pronounced as those on the L20T's? Anyone experienced with 8330?

Many thanks.

 

[showett]

Check out the JBL 18ti, they are the smallest of the ti series speakers but use the same tweeter as the 120ti and will be easier to have shipped.

 

[Kreshna]

Check out the JBL 18ti, they are the smallest of the ti series speakers but use the same tweeter as the 120ti and will be easier to have shipped.

How sensitive the 18Ti is? I doubt if it's more sensitive than the 120Ti.

 

[twiiii]

With the rear and speakers being closer and placed more in line with the auditory canal they would sound differently even if they perfectly matched your font speakers. There isn't much sound out there above 16 kHz and what there level is way way below 1000 hz, so I wouldn't worry about it. Moving your speakers the wrong way a foot or so could compromise the bass or make it stronger, even if attempting to use Odyssey to make everything perfect. So I would say go for it. Remember most rear and side channel stuff is band limited in the first place. If anything the directivity of the speakers will give the speakers a different flavor.

 

[showett]

How sensitive the 18Ti is? I doubt if it's more sensitive than the 120Ti.

The 18ti will be less sensitive but you should be able to compensate by turning the level of the surround speakers up. They will be similar to l20t but use the 120ti tweeter.

 

[Kreshna]

With the rear and speakers being closer and placed more in line with the auditory canal they would sound differently even if they perfectly matched your font speakers. There isn't much sound out there above 16 kHz and what there level is way way below 1000 hz, so I wouldn't worry about it.

I see. Not even cymbals and shattering glasses?

Moving your speakers the wrong way a foot or so could compromise the bass or make it stronger, even if attempting to use Odyssey to make everything perfect. So I would say go for it.

I see, thanks.

Remember most rear and side channel stuff is band limited in the first place. If anything the directivity of the speakers will give the speakers a different flavor.

Unfortunately it doesn't apply in video games though. In first-person shooters like, say, Call of Duty, rear and side channels have full bandwidth, because the game merely change the direction of the full-fledged sound effects, like gunshots and explosions. In such games the rear and side channels is used for sound effects direction as you change your relative position to the in-game sounds, like when, you're turning around when there are machine gun shots around you. It's unlike surround music or Dolby ProLogic where rear and side channels are merely used for ambience.

The 18ti will be less sensitive but you should be able to compensate by turning the level of the surround speakers up. They will be similar to l20t but use the 120ti tweeter.

Unfortunately, turning up the level of the surround speakers isn't possible with Dynaco QD-2. If all else fails I could always add l-pad attenuator to my L-C-R speakers. But I try to obtain sensitive surround speakers first.

 

[xero-D-hero]

FYI The TLX tweeters in the 8330 are'nt a true "pure" titanium tweeter,they are titanium laminate tweeters.
That is they are really cloth (soft dome) tweeters with titanium vapor deposited into the cloth matrix.
The marketing spin on that is it gives the structural integrity of a hard dome tweeter w/the damping characteristics of a soft dome tweeter.

Anyhow I have some of the JBL j series speakers (j325 & j350a) and FWIW those were the speakers that the 8330 "theater series" later grew out of.
Matter of fact the j325/j325a are the same speaker as the 8325/8325a except the later uses industrial style black cabs vs. faux vinyl woodgrain cabinets.
The 8330/8330a are surround speakers and the 8325/8325a are foreground speakers.

So I have some experience with the 8330 in a roundabout sort of way.

Anyhow dont expect those 8330 to sound all that similar to the JBL's with the pure titanium tweeters,as they wont.
The highs from the 011/012 TLX tweeters are more subtle and laid back compared to JBL true Ti tweeters.

Example: The highs from my JBL LX-22 & LX-44 (026Ti) and LXE-330 (027Ti) sound noticibly different than the j325 & j350a sound (011 & 012).
The JBL pure Ti tweeters are brighter and more forward vs. the titanium laminate TLX tweeters which are smoother and a bit less pronounced.

So maybe look into the LX/LXE/ARC series of JBL's for a more affordable & readily available series of JBL w/a pure Ti tweeter to match those 120Ti.
IMO the 026Ti & 027Ti from the LX/LXE/ARC series should be a much closer match to the 120Ti's > 044Ti than the 011/012 TLX tweeters are.

JM2¢ ~ FWIW

Bret P.

 

[Kreshna]

FYI The TLX tweeters in the 8330 are'nt a true "pure" titanium tweeter,they are titanium laminate tweeters.
That is they are really cloth (soft dome) tweeters with titanium vapor deposited into the cloth matrix.
The marketing spin on that is it gives the structural integrity of a hard dome tweeter w/the damping characteristics of a soft dome tweeter.

Anyhow I have some of the JBL j series speakers (j325 & j350a) and FWIW those were the speakers that the 8330 "theater series" later grew out of.
Matter of fact the j325/j325a are the same speaker as the 8325/8325a except the later uses industrial style black cabs vs. faux vinyl woodgrain cabinets.
The 8330/8330a are surround speakers and the 8325/8325a are foreground speakers.

So I have some experience with the 8330 in a roundabout sort of way.

Anyhow dont expect those 8330 to sound all that similar to the JBL's with the pure titanium tweeters,as they wont.
The highs from the 011/012 TLX tweeters are more subtle and laid back compared to JBL true Ti tweeters.

Example: The highs from my JBL LX-22 & LX-44 (026Ti) and LXE-330 (027Ti) sound noticibly different than the j325 & j350a sound (011 & 012).
The JBL pure Ti tweeters are brighter and more forward vs. the titanium laminate TLX tweeters which are smoother and a bit less pronounced.

So maybe look into the LX/LXE/ARC series of JBL's for a more affordable & readily available series of JBL w/a pure Ti tweeter to match those 120Ti.
IMO the 026Ti & 027Ti from the LX/LXE/ARC series should be a much closer match to the 120Ti's > 044Ti than the 011/012 TLX tweeters are.

JM2¢ ~ FWIW

Bret P.

Many thanks.

By the way, I spotted a pair of JBL TLX150 locally. Is the TLX series what you meant by 'TLX tweeters'? So I guess they would sound different than pure titanium dome tweeters, no?

 

[xero-D-hero]

The TLX series speakers are a later variant of the j series of speakers.
AFAIK the TLX series still mostly used variations of the earlier TLX Ti laminate tweeters.
So yeah those TLX series speakers likely sound more like the ***EDIT*** j series (incl. the 8330) than the ***EDIT*** Ti series (your 120Ti).

There were several lesser known series of JBL's in that time period as well.
Including some that "morphed" from the j series/theater series/TLX series to the later pure Ti LX/LXE/ARC series.
The JBL series speakers are from that period,they started out with titanium laminate tweeters and then later got pure titanium tweeters.
Example: The JBL 630 speakers had the Ti laminate tweeters (TLX2) and then later on the JBL 630t got the pure Ti tweeters (022Ti).

So no doubt it can be pretty confusing sorting all those various series of speakers out.
Especially seeing that they are probably among the worst documnted series of JBL's as well.
And most JBL types tend to shy away from these lower tier JBL's as SOP.

HTH

Bret P.

 

[Kreshna]

The TLX series speakers are a later variant of the j series of speakers.
AFAIK the TLX series still mostly used variations of the earlier TLX Ti laminate tweeters.
So yeah those TLX series speakers likely sound more like the earlier j series (incl. the 8330) than the later Ti series (your 120Ti).

I see. I didn't know 8330 is earlier than 120Ti.

And most JBL types tend to shy away from these lower tier JBL's as SOP.

Why?

 

[xero-D-hero]

I see. I didn't know 8330 is earlier than 120Ti.

That's because they are'nt,that was my mistake,in my defense it was kinda late and I did'nt catch that error in my proof-read.
The 8330 indeed came later,and the j series (j216/j220/j320/j325/j350) were contemporaries of the Ti series (both from around '85 IIRC).
I lumped the 8330 in with the j series mostly because the 8330 is basically just a j320 stuffed into that funky cabinet along with the hi-freq. switch added.

The JBL "pro" theater series (8325/8325a ~ 8330/8330a) were a way for JBL to continue marketing a speaker that never really found it's niche.
But yeah that was after they gave the consumer market a shot first.

Why?

Because,they use stamped metal frames for the woofers & mids,vinyl covered cabs vs. nice wood veneer,no mid/high attenuators,that sorta stuff.
Cabinets typically are'nt quite as susbstantial either,crossovers are a bit simpler,all that kinda stuff mostly.
Plus to some they just look too funky/dated to live with.

So many reject the lower tier JBL's w/o ever really giving them an honest listen (which absolutely is their right to do so).
But the truth is lots of those same folks have heard some of them w/o really knowing it,as they were used in a ton of movie theaters thru the years.
And a few of us have given them a chance & feel they're respectable enough speakers for what they cost nowadays (very reasonable pricewise).
But yeah it's obvious they're not gonna compare to JBL's TOTL offerings,but the thing is they were never intended to do so.

Anyhow GTGFN.

Bret P.

 

[Kreshna]

I've been pretty interested in JBL LX-44; it's sensitive (91 dB / watt / m) and it has titanium dome tweeter. I hope it has similar sound coloration with that of the 120Ti.

So many reject the lower tier JBL's w/o ever really giving them an honest listen (which absolutely is their right to do so).
But the truth is lots of those same folks have heard some of them w/o really knowing it,as they were used in a ton of movie theaters thru the years.
And a few of us have given them a chance & feel they're respectable enough speakers for what they cost nowadays (very reasonable pricewise).

Including the LX-44? So the model is pretty dynamic, isn't it?