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Does recapping make an audible difference? The shoot out & you're invited

w1jim said:
Well then so be it.
We had fun and that was our goal so I can only say that I'm sorry for disappointing you. I'm sure it won't be the first time :D.
I don't plan on redoing the exercise and don't plan on having both of these receivers in my collection in perpetuity.
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Jim,

I applaud what you did. Wish I was there to hear it. I think you did the best real world comparison possible. If the differences were heard in that environment then it's real. Certainly not something to be "invalidated".

Keep the Karma going :thmbsp:
 
great job! sounds like the whole thing was ton of fun!

from your test results, how can one say that there's still no difference? unless those participants were all drunk or with hearing loss, i think it's clear the recap makes a lot of difference.
 
There was a surprising and disappointing lack of alcohol consumption - I think the tunes and good company was a sufficient high for most.
It is ironic that the more we can afford this gear (as we age) the more our hearing degrades and the less we can appreciate it. Maybe that's the basis of nostalgia.
 
w1jim said:
There was a surprising and disappointing lack of alcohol consumption - I think the tunes and good company was a sufficient high for most.
It is ironic that the more we can afford this gear (as we age) the more our hearing degrades and the less we can appreciate it. Maybe that's the basis of nostalgia.
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you're right, life IS ironic sometimes....:yes:

i remember back in my younger days when a $20 bill in my pocket and queen's night at the opera cassette tape playing in my friend's crappy yellow pintos was all it took to make me and group of my friends happy.... beer and tacos.
 
What a cool project! Looks like a lot of fun and sure was an interesting read!

Thanks for the effort that went into this.
 
Did you compare the two before the recap? Just wondering.

Was the bias set on both?

Looks like a fun test.

Having them side by side makes a big difference. I wonder if you would have been able to hear a difference if you only had the one. Before and after the recap. I just did a 100% recap of an HK 330B, and it sounds the same to me now as it did before the recap. That doesn't mean it does though. I used Panasonic FC's for 95% of them. All the originals were the gray Elna's.

Rob
 
w1jim said:
There was a surprising and disappointing lack of alcohol consumption - I think the tunes and good company was a sufficient high for most.
It is ironic that the more we can afford this gear (as we age) the more our hearing degrades and the less we can appreciate it. Maybe that's the basis of nostalgia.
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Hey comeon now. I finished up the 3 hard iced teas from the 6 pack that I had gotten for last winter's get together.:yes:
Just like I said at the get together Jim I thought you did a very scientific shoot out with those 2 recievers. Of course some nit pickers will say no but that's their problem. It's really too not hard to criticize most anything in life if you really want to.
I must you did an equally good job on the charcoal grille as well. No criticism from me.:D
 
Robisme said:
Did you compare the two before the recap? Just wondering.
Was the bias set on both?
Rob
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I recapped the first SX-850 about a year ago and then just recently got the other one which needed some PS repairs so - no, I didn't have the opportunity to compare them before.
Both amp stages had the bias and DC offset set to similar values.
motorstereo said:
I must you did an equally good job on the charcoal grille as well. No criticism from me.:D
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Recapping the grill was a real challenge, those things get nasty hot :gigglemad!
 
Recapping the grill was a real challenge, those things get nasty hot :gigglemad![/QUOTE]

Was it you that burned the hot dogs?
 
As one of the participants in the shoot-out, I just want to emphasize that this was a very subtle difference. One of the questions we asked each other was "if you walked into the room with one or the other playing, could you identify it?". The concensus was a unanimous "no". Yet, with the very cool switchgear that w1jim fabricated for this test, it was possible to hear some slight differences.

I came away impressed not only with Jim's skill at electronics, but also with the overall sound of the Pioneer and Polks. The addition of the ribbon tweeter was about 10000x the difference of those caps !

It was great to meet you Jim and share in your experiment! This is what makes these gatherings so much fun - the people and their enthusiasm for this hobby...


jblnut
 
Thanks for the kind words jblnut. Did you listen before or after the red hot dogs?

Incidentally, I traded the stock SX-850 for a nice SX-9930 (aka blackfaced SX-939) which I just recapped and updated. This is documented in the Pioneer forum. Anyway, this particular test won't be repeated with those two.

Now I'm thinking what to do next - stock vs recapped SX-1250 or recapped SX-850 vs recapped SX-1250. Or???
 
U guys are crazy! In a Good Way. I think recapping will make an audible difference. Now, for better or worst? What is better? Cleaner? faster? Wider soundstage? I think the best way to do that is to replace all the aluminium electro caps with film caps. Really expensive, but u can prob hear the diff. better? Worst? Hmm. I really dont know, But i bet ya it will sound diff.
 
Crazy? That ship has sailed as we say.

Happy for you to contribute a receiver for the comparison - I'll even pick you up at the Worcester, MA airport.

How about comparing a Sansui G9000db to a Pioneer SX-1250?
I could l do recapped or stock of each (though I'd have to recap my Sansui).
 
w1jim said:
Thanks for the kind words jblnut. Did you listen before or after the red hot dogs?

Incidentally, I traded the stock SX-850 for a nice SX-9930 (aka blackfaced SX-939) which I just recapped and updated. This is documented in the Pioneer forum. Anyway, this particular test won't be repeated with those two.

Now I'm thinking what to do next - stock vs recapped SX-1250 or recapped SX-850 vs recapped SX-1250. Or???
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I think before, and I'm hoping that 's not a reference to something else (usually green) in which case I missed out!

Sign me up for the stock vs recapped 1250 session :D

Jblnut
 
w1jim said:
Does recapping result in an audible difference?

I have a Pioneer SX-850 receiver that I've fully recapped with Nichicon electrolytics (excepting the 2 large PS caps) and all of the 1uf and below electrolytics have been replaced with poly film caps. All tantalums have been replaced with electrolytics as well.
I was recently given a very nice SX-850 that had a blown fuse. I've recapped the power regulator PCB but left everything else original.

The question is can we discern a sonic difference between the recapped and non-recapped receivers?

I'm going to do a shoot-out on February 12th at our New England Winter get-together. Everyone is invited.

I'm very interested to see if we can determine if there is a sonic upside to my OCCRD (Obsessive Compulsive Capacitor Replacement Disorder).
JimB


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Sorry to dredge up this old thread but.............I recapped my Marantz 2220B 1 board at a time and listened after each board was done, you had recapped the P/S board (on the stock unit) and to me sonically that made the biggest difference for me. I now have 2 Marantz 2220B's one untouched and one recapped I am going to do a review when I get a chance.
 
patfont said:
Sorry to dredge up this old thread but.............I recapped my Marantz 2220B 1 board at a time and listened after each board was done, you had recapped the P/S board (on the stock unit) and to me sonically that made the biggest difference for me. I now have 2 Marantz 2220B's one untouched and one recapped I am going to do a review when I get a chance.
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Dredge away!
The uncapped receiver had a bad power supply - so I had to redo that board.
Since both PS boards were done the only other variable was all the other "audio" boards. That would be the variation that we were comparing.

If you noticed the biggest improvement after redoing the PS PCB then I would think the original was in particularly sad shape.
Also, you should keep in mind that it is difficult (at best) to remember what something sounds like without a reference point that is readily available.

It would be interesting to hear of your results when comparing the 2 Marantz's. It's important that the volume levels are audible identical (not just the knobs in the same position) - the louder one will sound better.
 
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