Does the tonearm have to look level while playing?

[inthegroove]

Just got a MOFI Studiodeck turntable and notice the tonearm seems to be on a very slight angle downward not the 90 degree appearance in relation to the record or platter I'm use to seeing. That said it does track and sound excellent. Hopefully it doesn't mean the VTA is off?

 

[cason]

If arm height is adjustable, the arm should generally be level (or nearly so). If arm height is not adjustable, that arm may not appear level depending on the height of the cartridge.

 

[inthegroove]

If arm height is adjustable, the arm should generally be level (or nearly so). If arm height is not adjustable, that arm may not appear level depending on the height of the cartridge.

It has an adjustment but it supposed to be set up from the factory. I guess I'll contact them.

 

[Gibsonian]

No, it doesn't have to or need to be level with lp's to sound it's best. Typically so, but not always. The stylus angle to lp is the critical one. The starting point for me is level, but optimum can be different from that, so experimentation is required to go from there.

Many carts instructions state bottom of cart parallel with lp as well.

 

[twiiii]

The cartridge should be level in the head shell. If the arm isn't quite level but the cartridge is correct then don't worry. Looking straight on at the cartridge is it perpendicular to the LP surface? Thats important also.

 

[benricci]

It has an adjustment but it supposed to be set up from the factory. I guess I'll contact them.

What do you need to contact them for? You can just adjust the small hex screw at the base of the tonearm if it's really bothering you; it'll take you ten seconds to set a new VTA.

They likely set it up within a certain tolerance at the factory and depending on the cartridge it might not need to be exactly parallel anyway. You admit it sounds and tracks excellent, so what's the problem? Enjoy it, from what I've heard it's a great table

 

[lini]

(...) Hopefully it doesn't mean the VTA is off?

A decent VTA and, probably even more impotantly, a decent SRA are the actual goals, while the arm orientation is secondary. But of course ideally every cart should be designed and manufactured so, that it provides a decent VTA and SRA under both level orientation and the recommended tracking force. Mind you, ideally!

But to give you an idea: Iirc, the most recent IEC standard recommendations for a decent VTA and decent SRA are 20° (+5° / -0°) for the VTA and upright/0° to 5° leaned over forward (i.e. towards a viewer in front of the turntable, the usual table/arm arrangement provided; or respectively like this "___\___", if the direction of groove travel would be from right to left, which would most usually be the case, if one would look at it from the right side of the table (*)) for the SRA. And assuming a regular Arm with an effective length of 230 mm, starting at horizontal orientation, it would take ca. 4 mm more height at the base to achieve a downward slope of just 1°, whereas for 5° it would already take ca. 20 mm (**).

So if there's just a slight downward slope in your particular setup, it's highly likely, that it's still easily within the standard recommendations - even more so, in case you deliberatily went for a slightly higher than the recommended tracking force for a higher tracking ability (people often tend to forget about the cantilever suspension being the second pivot in that arrangement...).

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

*) Alternatively you might find the SRA also often referenced to from the record plane, direction-of-groove-travel side, so that our upright instead would be perpendicular/90° and our 5° leaned over instead would be 95°.

**) Mind you, that this would only go for a 230-mm-arm, on which the pivot axis for the vertical motion isn't oriented perpendicular to the headshell angle. Whereas for a 230-mm-arm, on which the pivot axis for the vertical motion has been adapted to be perpedicular to the headshell angle, it would be a bit less than those ca. 4 and ca. 20 mm each, due to the effective tilting axis length shrinking to the cosine of the headshell angle times the effective length.

 

[Grenadeslio]

A decent VTA and, probably even more impotantly, a decent SRA are the actual goals, while the arm orientation is secondary. But of course ideally every cart should be designed and manufactured so, that it provides a decent VTA and SRA under both level orientation and the recommended tracking force. Mind you, ideally!

But to give you an idea: Iirc, the most recent IEC standard recommendations for a decent VTA and decent SRA are 20° (+5° / -0°) for the VTA and upright/0° to 5° leaned over forward (i.e. towards a viewer in front of the turntable, the usual table/arm arrangement provided; or respectively like this "___\___", if the direction of groove travel would be from right to left, which would most usually be the case, if one would look at it from the right side of the table (*)) for the SRA. And assuming a regular Arm with an effective length of 230 mm, starting at horizontal orientation, it would take ca. 4 mm more height at the base to achieve a downward slope of just 1°, whereas for 5° it would already take ca. 20 mm (**).

So if there's just a slight downward slope in your particular setup, it's highly likely, that it's still easily within the standard recommendations - even more so, in case you deliberatily went for a slightly higher than the recommended tracking force for a higher tracking ability (people often tend to forget about the cantilever suspension being the second pivot in that arrangement...).

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

*) Alternatively you might find the SRA also often referenced to from the record plane, direction-of-groove-travel side, so that our upright instead would be perpendicular/90° and our 5° leaned over instead would be 95°.

**) Mind you, that this would only go for a 230-mm-arm, on which the pivot axis for the vertical motion isn't oriented perpendicular to the headshell angle. Whereas for a 230-mm-arm, on which the pivot axis for the vertical motion has been adapted to be perpedicular to the headshell angle, it would be a bit less than those ca. 4 and ca. 20 mm each, due to the effective tilting axis length shrinking to the cosine of the headshell angle times the effective length.

ROFLMAO, now you've got him going.

 

[Grenadeslio]

Just got a MOFI Studiodeck turntable and notice the tonearm seems to be on a very slight angle downward not the 90 degree appearance in relation to the record or platter I'm use to seeing. That said it does track and sound excellent. Hopefully it doesn't mean the VTA is off?View attachment 2163445

Running the stylus slightly forward, or arm tail up will result in a more forward presentation, where running the arm slightly tail down will result in a more laid back or warm presentation.

If running a micro line stylus SRA/VTA become much more critical and tracking will definitely suffer quicker if off than say an elliptical or conical.

So as others have stated, if wanting to fine tune the SQ to your taste start with the arm level, then try a bit tail up, then a bit tail down until it's to your preference.

 

[RobRoy]

The cartridge should be level in the head shell. If the arm isn't quite level but the cartridge is correct then don't worry. Looking straight on at the cartridge is it perpendicular to the LP surface? Thats important also.

I believe that would suggest that if you use a standard S or J shaped tonearm that takes standard removable headshells, it would mean the tonearm should be parallel to the record surface, since these headshells have no "bend" in them. They attach pefectly straight. This should make it very easy to adjust the tonearm for the cartridge (assuming it's adjustable). On my one turntable like this I have to apply a very thick cork mat because the tonearm is already adjusted as low as it will go.

 

[Fishead]

people often tend to forget about the cantilever suspension being the second pivot in that arrangement...

Good point!

Would it also be accurate to say, just to be a bit more comprehensive? :

"***) And, mind you further, that what has been discussed is based on a static model, which does not take into consideration what happens to the SRA and VTA upon setting the mechanism into motion, with the stylus being dragged through the groove creating yet another variable affecting said angle....."

Just having a little fun, inthegroove!!!

Seriously, I think you should call MoFi if you think it will give you some reassurance and that is plenty OK! Otherwise, what ben said above is likely going to be what they tell you anyway.....if you got it new, and if it still has the Tracker cart on it, then the setting of the tonearm should be pretty spot-on.

However, if you want to have some fun and try a few things, you could always record the present setting of the arm by using a caliper or, not having one of those, just stack playing cards between the top of the deck and the bottom of the arm, making a note of your finding. This will allow you to return to the original setting should you choose to do so. Then, raise and lower the arm and see what you think sounds best to you! That is one of the exercises we can enjoy in this hobby.....just one.....

 

[triode]

so no one thinks there could be any implications in terms of dynamic moment of inertia (upward/downward forces), comparing when the arm is level v/s slightly pitching upward or downward while playing , especially through warps ?

 

[Gibsonian]

No. Simply set it to sound the best to your ears, and wallah, done!

 

[lini]

Would it also be accurate to say, (...)

Yes, of course it would. I.e., if one does the SRA fine adjustment by visual/optical means in a static state, one should additionally consider, that due to the cantilever being at an angle to the record surface, while the groove drag happens in the horizontal plane, this would be pretty comparable to the skating force caused by the groove drag and cartridge being at an angle relative to the virtual arm axis, if one uses a conventional radial-tracking arm with offset angle. So that, as soon as the record turns, there actually also will be a bit of "vertical skating", causing the needle and cantilever to kind of "swim up" a bit.

Greeting from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[gadget73]

The proper settings for my Thorens end up with the pivot higher than the headshell. Thats with an arm at the factory height at the pivot, and the stylus towards the highest point in the height slot on the alignment gauge. I've never bothered to study it further to figure out the exact SRA/VTA but I figure some smart cookie in Switzerland figured that out a half century ago.

 

[Lavane]

I've always adjusted the VTA so that the stylus is level. Making sure the the flat end of the cantilever the stylus is on is level. Sometimes the arm is level, sometimes not, depending on the cartridge and stylus.

 

[Fishead]

causing the needle and cantilever to kind of "swim up" a bit.

Yes, along the same principle as the water skier in the water clutching to the handle on the rope, which when force is applied by the boat lifts the skier up and to the top of the water.....I don't do that!!! Hmmmm.....but as you say, perhaps my stylus does?

Heavens, I sure hope the OP gets that we're having a little fun here?!?!

 

[lini]

g73: Well, actually most of the Thorens with stock arms, that I'm aware of, were prepared to take pretty tall cartridges. That why the included accessories typically also contained a set of several distance plates of different thickness - and if the model came with a stock cartridge, that not rarely was already mounted with some more distance plates. For example, my own TD280II came with the Stanton 500EIII, mounted with two of the thinner distance plates (in addition to the original Stanton "isolators" (or whatever one would like to call these).

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[lini]

Fishead: Well, then we might as well go all the way and additionally mention, that altering the tonearm height for SRA/VTA tuning will typically at the same time also more or less slightly alter the adjustment geometry (i.e. effective length & overhang as well as the offset angle) and even the tracking force. So in fact one doesn't merely alter one, but several parameters. So if one has done that, noticed a certain change of the sound and would like to be totally honest, one also couldn't yet attribute that change to the alteration of one isolated parameter only.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[Grenadeslio]

Fishead: Well, then we might as well go all the way and additionally mention, that altering the tonearm height for SRA/VTA tuning will typically at the same time also more or less slightly alter the adjustment geometry (i.e. effective length & overhang as well as the offset angle) and even the tracking force. So in fact one doesn't merely alter one, but several parameters. So if one has done that, noticed a certain change of the sound and would like to be totally honest, one also couldn't yet attribute that change to the alteration of one isolated parameter only.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

The reason for revisiting those parameters after each change, and why I so like my digital scale eh lol.