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Does using high lvl speaker in/out on subs degrade signal to speakers?

knifeswitch

knifeswitch

Active Member
I have read and heard that it is somewhat preferable to use the speaker in/out connection method when using a sub in a 2.1 situation. I think I understand the reasoning as well and that the amp doesn’t “see” the sub as a load. But IYO, does it color or degrade in any way the signal reaching the speakers?
Mike
 
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knifeswitch said:
I have read and heard that it is somewhat preferable to use the speaker in/out connection method when using a sub in a 2.1 situation. I think I understand the reasoning as well and that the amp doesn’t “see” the sub as a load. But IYO, does it color or degrade in any way the signal reaching the speakers?
Mike
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no it does not, and your assumption that the use of high level inputs is preferred is also mistaken. It's used more often because most don't have any other means of connection, main out/pre in are not included with most lower level receivers/integrated amps.

One, and only one manufacturer recommends this method, it's a marketing ploy to stand out from the rest. So it seems those without gear that allows the better line level connection have taken this to heart, they have no other option lol.

Think about it, why would feeding the sub a different signal than the main amplifier be better? They'll argue it's colored to be more like the signal to the mains lol, now that's funny.

This might be true with a passive sub, but I still don't buy it. If this were such a great idea then why don't ALL amplifiers have these connections to allow daisy chaining amps with high level signals. this way you only need one Krell amp feeding a line of bottom feeders and they'll all sound like the Krell, let's go with that.

If your equipment has the means to use the line level inputs use them, there's a reason many high end subs don't even include speaker level inputs, they're inferior.

All that said, out of convenience I've used both, and currently using the high level to the HT subs with good affect, I'm just not deluding myself into thinking it's "superior" lol.
 
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Grenadeslio said:
no it does not, and your assumption that the use of high level inputs is preferred is also mistaken. It's used more often because most don't have any other means of connection, main out/pre in are not included with most lower level gear.
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I would also tend to agree with the above statement. When given the choice, I always use the RCA inputs of the subwoofer.
 
Grenadeslio said:
Then you haven't read enough on the subject.
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Entirely possible. What I took away from the theory is that the receiver’s dedicated sub out has gone through some processing which could cause signal delay or odd phasing. I don’t know. My AU6600 has pre-out main-in so I could go either way. I was more curious if the signal passing through the sub high level inputs was changing final output at the speaker. You would say nope.
 
knifeswitch said:
Entirely possible. What I took away from the theory is that the receiver’s dedicated sub out has gone through some processing which could cause signal delay or odd phasing. I don’t know. My AU6600 has pre-out main-in so I could go either way. I was more curious if the signal passing through the sub high level inputs was changing final output at the speaker. You would say nope.
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Only if the sub has a high pass filter, otherwise the outputs are connected directly to the inputs. So if there's any degradation it's only that caused by the added connection point.

If you wanted to go this route you could also connect the sub to speaker output B if present, and both A & B can be used simultaneously. You could also tap off the A speaker output twice if the cables fit, with these two methods you eliminate the added connection at the sub if desired.

I have three subs set up in the media rm, the one dedicated for 2-channel music reproduction only has line level connections. The two for HT being used as stands for the mains are utilizing the high level inputs, then up to the mains out of convenience.

Again, high level works outstandingly well and I wouldnt hesitate to recommend this method.

As for a dedicated sub output, I've only ever used one when employing passive subs with power amplifiers. Back in the early 2000's I built a rather extensive HT system with built in subs from Madisound driven with a 1000watt amp. These were fed from the output on an outboard surround processor, I've never owned an AVR, or any receiver actually. I've always had separates, even my first system as a teen consisted of an integrated amp and tuna.
 
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knifeswitch said:
Guess I’ll try it both ways and see what I like. Thanks
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:thumbsup:

Some prefer it one way, some prefer it the other, and some don't care.
You can run speaker wire to the speakers and then the subwoofer or you can use 2 sets of wires from the main amp.
 
Vintagear said:
REL makes high quality subwoofers that are usually paired with higher end speakers and gear and they recommend using the high level connection over line-level.
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Paul McGowan from PSAudio (yeah, I know, let's not get into it) also recommends using the high level inputs if available. His reasoning is that it will allow the subwoofer to get the sound quality of the main amp in the system. To me it sounds like you're just adding distortion to the signal path, but I don't have a dog in this fight, and I use whatever input makes sense for any given system.
 
At one time all REL subs only had high level connections. They used to brag about it with the claim that using the signal from the amp was more compatible because you are using the same amp to drive everything. What a crock.

Checking their web site says that is not the case now. Their TOTL sub has only line level inputs. I didn't bother checking their entire line.
 
Improved blending is plausible, IMO.

"What a crock" is a generalization of a belief, without evidence or proof. Again, IMO.

What IS certain is that speaker-level subwoofer inputs do not affect the main speaker signal.
 
The sub company that recommends connecting the inputs of the sub from the amp is REL, which I happen to own. It is the smartest way to hook up a sub. Other methods take away bass from the mains and redirect it to the sub, how stupid is that? RELs allow the mains to run full bandwidth, and use its sub to fill in the bottom, where many speakers can't reach. This method is a win-win scenario.
 
WaynerN said:
The sub company that recommends connecting the inputs of the sub from the amp is REL, which I happen to own. It is the smartest way to hook up a sub. Other methods take away bass from the mains and redirect it to the sub, how stupid is that? RELs allow the mains to run full bandwidth, and use its sub to fill in the bottom, where many speakers can't reach. This method is a win-win scenario.
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I run mine with speaker level in and out. I also just use the sub to fill in the lower frequencies my mains can't produce. I adjust the sub just a bit above where the mains roll off, then adjust the volume on the sub to where you don't notice the sub is there untill its turned off. I've heard way too many subs that were adjusted with a heavy hand.
 
Some folks have good reasons for taking lower-frequency input away from the mains, especially at maximum SPLs. Others have difficulty getting seamless integration with their main speakers. Planar listeners seem notoriously finicky about subs. My powered-sub formula is simple - let the mains run full range, use speaker-level inputs, set the crossover at the main's -3 dB down point, and the level by ear so that the sub is not noticeable as a separate source of sound. Lower notes in a walking bass line should not be emphasized, but a kick drum should sound fuller, to my ears at least. "Not noticeable until turned off" is a good description.
 
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