Donations, Subscriptions, and Timing

[sleddogman]

So, let's review... the equivalent amount of funds ($25 or more) recently donated towards the new server don't count, which just makes us plain ol' "donators" rather than more benevolent "subscribers", for which one now has to pony up an additional $25, yes?

If that's the case, then how about a AK DONOR badge for the rest of us who contributed what we could at the time to help make the new server possible? Seems only fair . . .

 

[Urizen]

sled,

My past donations did not allow me more message space, or more picture storage space.

I just sent it because I knew it would help the site, and in return I gained more knowledge about our obsession.

As a donor, regardless of how much you have given, you are always free to use the sponsor tag in your sig, IIRC.

This $25 bucks bought more than a banner.

Ken

 

[OMI]

I agree with sleddogman... Why not a "one time" retroactive application (credit) of funds ($25 or more) donated after the most recent call for help for a one yr. credit. Just seems like the right AK thing to do....

My 2 cents...

 

[Urizen]

Not wanting to start a "flame war".. I agree with sleddogman... Why not a "one time" retroactive application of funds ($25 or more) donated after the recent call for help for a one yr. credit. I was going to send a few $$$ along after I got some last remaining items cleared up and this deal popped up.... Other wise I would be in the same boat as sleddogman... Just seems like the right AK thing to do....

My 2 cents...

OMI, I respect your opinion, and agree with you to a point, but I do believe that questions aimed to the admin and mods of this board are best dealt with a PM, rather than discussing them on the open forums.

YMMV.

 

[timoteus]

I sent in $25.00 via PayPal on 6/17 just before this feature was activated. Can I get an AK Subscriber banner too? I guess my timing was a little premature.

 

[sleddogman]

OMI, I respect your opinion, and agree with you to a point, but I do believe that questions aimed to the admin and mods of this board are best dealt with a PM, rather than discussing them on the open forums.

YMMV.

My question was NOT intended to start any type of war or stir up any trouble. It was a legit and honest question which I felt had merit in an open forum and not some secretive back channel. Anyone reading the announcement on subscribership likely had similar questions run through their minds.

I'm NOT asking to be grandfathered in on any type of Subscriber deal, but if subscribers are going to receive special recognition for their contributions, then why not the guy who donated what he could to the cause out of appreciation? That was the underlying nature of my question.

My apologies to the upper echelon for any sighs of exasperation this may have produced...

 

[grumpy]

So, let's review... the equivalent amount of funds ($25 or more) recently donated towards the new server don't count, which just makes us plain ol' "donators" rather than more benevolent "subscribers", for which one now has to pony up an additional $25, yes?

If that's the case, then how about a AK DONOR badge for the rest of us who contributed what we could at the time to help make the new server possible? Seems only fair . . .

Sorry but the call for donations was necessary to cover the massive cost needed to start the server change over. Now that we are moved and operating we need a way to raise the capital to maintain the server cost which are now 75 % greater per month.

We have had an AK sponsor banner available for the asking. Anyone who would like the sponsor badge merely has to send a PM to Luvvinvinyl and he will be happy to help you out.

 

[grumpy]

Not wanting to start a "flame war".. I agree with sleddogman... Why not a "one time" retroactive application of funds ($25 or more) donated after the most recent call for help for a one yr. credit. I was going to send a few $$$ along after I got some last remaining items cleared up and this deal popped up.... Other wise I would be in the same boat as sleddogman... Just seems like the right AK thing to do....

My 2 cents...

BTW I have also willingly donated in the past in support of this site and its members...

Unfortunately we have a monthly server bill and making past payments count toward the new membership drive defeats the purpose of it.

 

[john_w]

Just another guy's couple cents

Sled, Omri, timodeus:

Speaking as just another member (Never even met these admins, mods, etc. - at least not yet.) You guys made contributions purely to help out AK, which is a far nobler act than a "subscription" which gets you added perks. Why not continue to apply the donation for the purpose to which it was originally intended? And Grumpy is right, IMO - making past donations count for new offerings would be impossible for these guys to manage from a cash flow perspective. I'd say the Site Sponsor banner is a greater badge of honor if you choose to display it, anyhow.

Myself, I'm going to do the subscription thing - only because it's a great way to make a default minimum annual donation without having to remember to do it! I'm not a heavy user of this site - few of the current perks would even come in handy for me. (But I will get a shiny red banner by my handle! Gee, nifty.)

 

[Greg B.]

Sled, Omri, timodeus:

Speaking as just another member (Never even met these admins, mods, etc. - at least not yet.) You guys made contributions purely to help out AK, which is a far nobler act than a "subscription" which gets you added perks. Why not continue to apply the donation for the purpose to which it was originally intended? And Grumpy is right, IMO - making past donations count for new offerings would be impossible for these guys to manage from a cash flow perspective. I'd say the Site Sponsor banner is a greater badge of honor if you choose to display it, anyhow.

Myself, I'm going to do the subscription thing - only because it's a great way to make a default minimum annual donation without having to remember to do it! I'm not a heavy user of this site - few of the current perks would even come in handy for me. (But I will get a shiny red banner by my handle! Gee, nifty.)

I'm fairly new here so whatever I say here is with some trepidation. I love the site, have gained lots of great info from it and (virtually) met some great people. It's all good.

But I have to say the subscription thing, coming hard on the heels of the urgent call for donations, doesn't set real well with me. If it was in the works anyway (as I assume it was) then it would have seemed proper to announce it at the time the urgent appeal was being made. Maybe it was and I missed it, I dunno.

I have donated for the appeal and will probably subscribe in due course because I respect and value what I get out of AK. But I haven't even paid the cc statement my donation appeared on yet, so the timing of this announcement seems poor. The extra subscriber features aren't of value for me so they won't be the reason for subscribing anyway -- although the idea of subscriber-only forums is a bit troubling depending upon what they contain.

I wish I could articulate my feelings on this a bit better. I'm not bent out of shape or upset. It just seems a little "off" in a way I can't explain properly. In no way do I intend the above to reflect badly on any of those who work so hard to allow AK to operate and prosper, which is another reason for my trepidation.

Anyway, my $0.02, which is all I can give you for now until the right time to subscribe comes around.

 

[doucanoe]

I'm fairly new here so whatever I say here is with some trepidation. I love the site, have gained lots of great info from it and (virtually) met some great people. It's all good.

But I have to say the subscription thing, coming hard on the heels of the urgent call for donations, doesn't set real well with me. If it was in the works anyway (as I assume it was) then it would have seemed proper to announce it at the time the urgent appeal was being made. Maybe it was and I missed it, I dunno.

I have donated for the appeal and will probably subscribe in due course because I respect and value what I get out of AK. But I haven't even paid the cc statement my donation appeared on yet, so the timing of this announcement seems poor. The extra subscriber features aren't of value for me so they won't be the reason for subscribing anyway -- although the idea of subscriber-only forums is a bit troubling depending upon what they contain.

I wish I could articulate my feelings on this a bit better. I'm not bent out of shape or upset. It just seems a little "off" in a way I can't explain properly. In no way do I intend the above to reflect badly on any of those who work so hard to allow AK to operate and prosper, which is another reason for my trepidation.

Anyway, my $0.02, which is all I can give you for now until the right time to subscribe comes around.

Hey Greg, I'm pretty sure that anytime the "Subscriber" option would of been rolled out, it overlap a few that had just made donations. I myself, had donated to the server fund recently, but also understand that these are two different things really. One for the server itself and the other more to maintain the server costs and daily operation.

I use the site frequently to gather information, but more so nowaday to keep in touch with long distant friends that I have made here. For both of those reasons, the decision to become a subscriber was a easy one.

The knowledge gained is invaluable and the friendships, as they say, priceless.

RC

 

[Greg B.]

I myself, had donated to the server fund recently, but also understand that these are two different things really. One for the server itself and the other more to maintain the server costs and daily operation.

Maybe that's the thing that wasn't clear to me. I read the appeal for donations as a way to keep the lights on. Now it seems that wasn't the case, but rather a capital investment fund. Perhaps I missed that if it was explained in those terms at the time.

Having had some past experience with these sort of things, I've found you need to be very clear about your goals once you start soliciting funds, and pretty transparent after the fact about saying what you used the funds for.

 

[john_w]

Maybe that's the thing that wasn't clear to me. I read the appeal for donations as a way to keep the lights on. Now it seems that wasn't the case, but rather a capital investment fund. Perhaps I missed that if it was explained in those terms at the time.

I understood it as neither capital investment nor "keeping the lights on", but rather growth management. It also did come across to me as initial cost, but I wasn't thinking of the increased maintenance either. That's the odd thing about hosting a web site - you can't exactly limit the number of people that hit a site at a given time, and your exposure is world-wide. If things really catch on, look out!!

I also thought the timing didn't seem quite right, right after such a huge drive. There was, however, a brief mention of a new subscriber feature with added benefits just before (or during?) the drive, but I didn't realize exactly what it was going to be about. (Though I should have caught that - hello - "subscription"??) Maybe more emphasis and info about this at the time would have been better. The ongoing maintenance is however an immediate concern and AK is eating that as we type. Also - $25?? It's not like they're asking for a huge sacrifice. And it's also not like we HAVE to contribute to keep what we have. If they were asking for much more, I'd have balked at it as well.

 

[onepixel]

I don't think it makes to much of a difference if you are a subscriber or not. As long as you give a little back. I've donated $200+ in out of pocket cash and benefit items this year alone to AK and "other" AK fundraisiers. That's how much I appreciate AK. It's been well worth it.

I won't be subscribing though, but I will keep supporting AK in my own way.

btw...that red badge really annoys me!

 

[ozmoid]

I pulled a couple of quotes from Grumpy's posts in the AK News forum. (The little blue arrows will take you to the threads - love the software upgrade!) I think he laid it out pretty good about the intent of the donations and the direction of future services.

I actually made two donations each equal to "subscribing" during the server drive. I've donated $$ previously, and an item for auction as well. I spend a lot of time here, I have made a lot of friends here - most of them I've never seen. Some of them I've actually spoken to on the phone a few times. A few I've bought/sold/traded gear with, and a few have sent items I needed for projects at cost or for shipping or at their own expense. I've tried to return the favor to other members where and when I can.

I've never been a member of another forum quite like this one, and I'd like to see it thrive and survive. (And that is a completely selfish statement.)

I personally do not think the subscriber service alone will keep AK going. I think it's gonna take some donations, too. I'm glad to see the service, and I think it maybe "bumped" some folks into giving money who had never donated - and that's a good thing. But I just don't think it will eliminate the need for donations.

Our goal, for AK, has always been to make it self-sufficient, meaning that AK's advertising would cover the costs of the server bill and things like the Fest. It has not and is not even close. We rely upon the generosity of those who visit this site to help support it.

I despise coming on here putting my hand out to you fine folks, in hopes of meeting our bills, and it has been a very long time since this last happened, but we are not out of the woods, yet. I thank those of you who have generously supported AK, and ask that all of you who have not yet made a donation, to please do so.

Thought I would give everyone an update as to where we stand.

We changed over to the new server some time ago but have been battling some bugs. For the most part everything works now except for allowing uploads to the gallery. That should be fixed in the near future.

Our VBulletin software will be updated soon. Look for an announcement soon as the board will be temporarily shut down during this time.

Once the software upgrade is done we will be unveiling a new subscriber membership. For a small fee this will allow our members to upload serious amounts of photos without fear of hitting the max. Many other perks such as additional forums and more will accompany this.

Audiokarma will be getting a slightly new look for the front page. We are toying with the idea of bringing back the shout box that was fairly popular in the past.

Thank you to everyone who donated. Without your help we would be dead in the water.

Grumpy

 

[grumpy]

First and foremost, I would like everyone to know that AK is still a free site, just like it was when it was started 5 years ago.

In the past 5 years, yes, we have had "donation" drives to help support our site. And without many of you long term members, who have generously "donated" we might not be where we are today. My many Thanks to those of you who have ever donated.

So as AK continued to grow, so did our need to keep upgrading our operating system. More members meant more needed resources.

Two months ago when we asked for donations, it was because we were doing a much needed system upgrade and during that upgrade our entire system crashed! We were in a bind and we had to hire someone ASAP to fix it. If we did not hire this guy to fix AK, there would not be an AK. If anyone has ever had a problem with their home computer and paid a tech to look at it you know how costly that can be. Imagine doing that to a system that handles 23,000 members. Was it worth it? Let's put it this way, if the members had not made donations, my wife and I would have paid it because AK is that important to me. So Hell yes it was worth it!!

I was up at 5 am this morning working on AK, handling 200 e-mails questions, making sure that prizes were being sent, answering questions on AK, fixing problems, the list goes on and on. It is now almost 11pm, and I am still on AK. This is a typical day for me. Because I care more about this site than many of you will ever know.

The subscriber service has been in the works for over a year and half. We knew that there never would be a right time to institute it. I was always against the subscriber service because the site has always been free. The subscribers service though, brought something to the members that they wanted. Unfortunately, if we gave it to every single member we would fill up our servers hard drive and we would have to upgrade, meaning more money. So some of the reasons for charging the $25.00 is to help offset the server fees that we acquired when we upgraded 2 months ago (we are currently paying server fees equal to almost 10 times what we paid when AK started) . And if we continue to grow, we will have to upgrade again. The reality is growing pains suck.

So when someone questions why charge $25.00 for this service. Ask yourself, do you go to any other site and get what you get from AK ? And will continue to.

Grumpy

 

[stereofisher]

A second thought...

Thanks to everyone who joined so far. The response has been far greater than we expected!

Join early, and be entered for the prize contest. Even if you don't win, it'll be the best $25 you ever spent on audio!

Some are upset because the subscription came out after the donation drive. Thats their right to speak out. I dont feel that $25 is all that bad. Our local newspaper costs $21 a month. Marilyn talked me into it. We shared the cost and now if I want it I have to pay the whole thing. Go figure. I subscribe to Stereophile and Automoble Magazines. I am here more than all three.

Get more out of it. AK is worth it. Money is tight here. It sucks worrying about $$$ at my age (56) Should be retired, own a house and not have to worry about the crap above. This site and hobby is some of the things that makes life worth a d***!!...Good stuff costs. Go for it folks!!

Eric

 

[Negotiableterms]

...It just seems a little "off" in a way I can't explain properly.

It does seem a little weird, but that's only because we've never taken the time to explain what happened. It's all been talked about on the board, but never assembled into one place where everyone can get a handle on it. I've moved all of the posts on this topic into this new thread, and here's the story:

As a site grows, the server has to grow with it. The amount of memory has to grow, and the amount of hard disk storage, and the amount of processing power, and equally important, the amount of bandwidth allocated by the server company.

In late 2006, it became apparent that our server was not going to handle the load much longer. You'll all remember that it had slowed down to the point of frustration. So, we switched to a new server, at a new company ("First Upgrade"). We paid the large setup fee, plus the support software (database) upgrades necessary to get to the one-version-behind of vBulletin. This was supposed to be a big upgrade, but the actual results were horrific. You'll all recall the daily crashes, lost posts, missing pics, and various other things that just didn't work. We almost lost the entire AK databse, and had to pay outside consultants to try to fix all that, and to try to coach the new server company into getting it all right. Ultimately, that didn't work, and things went further downhill. We got screwed, and can't get our money back.

So, my friend Grumpy took a very deep breath, and called around for opinions on what to do. The unanimous vote was to bite the bullet and step up to a first-class server company, a higher-powered server, the latest version of vBulletin and all the associated database software, and a heaping helping of bandwidth (the "Second Upgrade"). Our monthly nut is now roughly TEN times the price of our original server, and the road from there to here is paved with money. The last round of donations were mostly used to pay for the First Upgrade and associated disaster recovery. The current round of Subscriptions are paying for the Second Upgrade.

Dave has resisted the Subscription idea since day one, but put bluntly, there's no other way to pay for the new structure. In actuality, there have only ever been a core of about 200 people who donated on any regular basis. Many thanks to all, but there just aren't enough of you for today's costs. The Subscriptions will hopefully broaden the base enough to stabilize things.

If the Subscriptions coming after the donation drive seems a little off, that's because it is. We thought the First Upgrade would hold us for a couple of years, instead of forcing us to the Second Upgrade in a couple of months.

Can you get credit from the donations for the Subscriptions? No, because the money got spent, both times, and we still have to pay the monthly server fees. Are we happy it turned out that way? No, but there's nothing we can do about it.

Seriously, folks, I hope that explains the whole timing thing. Now, let's please move on to enjoying the new fast server, greater upload capacity, and all the other benefits that Dave and Luther have busted their asses to achieve!

 

[sleddogman]

Great... new thread with me in the pole position. I just hope I haven't gained the dubious honor of becoming the AK poster boy of discontent for having initially asked the question.

The mention of Ten times the previous monthly outlay sounds like a daunting (and astronomical) figure to come up with each month. Out of an honest sense of community, as well as morbid curiosity, what's the monthly tab come to in order to keep the lights on each month now, or did AK negotiate a quarterly or yearly plan with the new hosting service?

We may not all be able to afford to Subscribe at the moment, but all the smaller Donor "slices of bread" eventually help to build a full loaf, plus serves to make us feel good for having made a contribution to the cause. That was what prompted my question about a Donor badge in conjunction with a Subscriber badge. Letting us know what we're up against as a community helps us try to better help Dave and all the other folks keep things running...

 

[ozmoid]

In actuality, there have only ever been a core of about 200 people who donated on any regular basis.

:sigh:

We may not all be able to afford to Subscribe at the moment, but all the smaller Donor "slices of bread" eventually help to build a full loaf, plus serves to make us feel good for having made a contribution to the cause.

Well said.