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Dual 1010 speed issues

muchachos

muchachos

Active Member
Hi all, I've been having issues with repairing a Dual 1010. I found it in a pretty nice console stereo which was left at the side of the road about a year ago, and I'm trying to fix it up as a secondary (super retro) rig.

Anyways, the Dual plays at about 34.5 RPM when measured with the RPM calculator app for Android. My first suspicion was that the motor pulley was the 50 Hz one, but now I doubt that as it does not play 20% too fast. I have cleaned the pulley, and removing some of the rubber built up on there seemed to bring the speed down a little bit.

Other than this though, I'm stumped. The service manual's troubleshooting section does not address this. Could it be an idler wheel issue - maybe if the idler has hardened up too much? Could it be an issue with the motor needing a thicker oil? Has anyone else had this problem? Any advice is most welcome!
 
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Certainly, the condition of the idler is always an issue. Hard rubber seems to raise speed a bit, at least on other brands. Even though I fix Dual, I needed to see a pic first. That being said, this unit has no pitch control and no tapered pulley. So, you need to look at the finish of the inside of the platter rim, condition of the wheel, and........... The motor speed does not lock into line frequency. Voltage determines speed. USA standards have raised voltage about 15+% in the last 50 years. Also, if the idler runs anything but true to the platter rim, it alters speed.
 
Might just be the stepped pulley driving the idler. A 1010 was the least expensive model Dual made and as far as I've read, primarily intended for installation into console stereos. Maybe Dual was not especially concerned with speed accuracy at the low end of the price spectrum and used stepped pulleys that were not uniformly sized diameter wise.

There's someone with the handle Dualcan who hangs out in the Dual sub-forum at Vinyl Engine. That mans knowledge is encyclopedic as he was the Dual/Noresco service manager in Canada. He's helped me a great deal with old Duals and is often first or second out of the gate with a response. Most regulars there defer to him and perhaps two others with matters related to Dual.
 
Before you drive yourself crazy, does it sound fast? I was using the Android RPM calculator app and it was telling me my Miracord was fast too. It sounded fine, but it bothered me anyway. Turns out the app was inaccurate. I put in on my direct drive table and adjusted the pitch control until the app read 33.3 then played a record. It was obviously too slow. Ended up deleting the app and enjoying the table.
 
That is a great point. Personally, I get along just fine without a strobe, as for some odd reason, I am endowed with a great sense of pitch. So, go with your heart, not with a smartphone app.
Or get a real strobe disc and 60Hz light source. Does everything in life need to revolve around our smartphones?????????????????????
 
likebike23 said:
Before you drive yourself crazy, does it sound fast? I was using the Android RPM calculator app and it was telling me my Miracord was fast too. It sounded fine, but it bothered me anyway. Turns out the app was inaccurate. I put in on my direct drive table and adjusted the pitch control until the app read 33.3 then played a record. It was obviously too slow. Ended up deleting the app and enjoying the table.
Click to expand...

That IS interesting. A couple of months back, I visited a local turntable specialist with a friend's Thorens that I thought had a suspension problem. I did not know such a thing existed, but for the heck of it he placed his phone on the platter to measure speed. The phone displayed about .75 RPM higher at 33.33 but was bang on at 45.

I used a strobe disc prior to that visit and 33.33 seemed OK to me.
 
NoTransistors said:
That is a great point. Personally, I get along just fine without a strobe, as for some odd reason, I am endowed with a great sense of pitch. So, go with your heart, not with a smartphone app.
Or get a real strobe disc and 60Hz light source. Does everything in life need to revolve around our smartphones?????????????????????
Click to expand...

I agree with Seth^^^. My sense of pitch is pretty good. Years ago, the strobe paper on my 1229 fell off. Never glued it back. Still hangs on a hook in my shop. Have a 1010S. Souns pretty good. My first Dual. Up to 5 working Dual's. The 1010 holds its own against my 1229, and three 1219s. And they have pitch controls. Set them once and have ignored them since.
 
Thanks all for the feedback.

NoTransistors I will check what you mentioned. The idler seems fairly soft, however, so it may be the mains frequency (though I am in Canada, not the States, so I'm unsure as to what the difference is here betw/ now and 1968).

likebike23 - it did occur to me that the app might be off. The turntable does sound fast though, and the app measures within .1 RPM for my Thorens, which sounds good to my ears.

I've tried to get a strobe light and disc to work in the past, but haven't been able to find any bulbs that flicker appropriately. Maybe I'll have to look into this too - I do wish not everything had to revolve around smartphones!

Will keep you posted, and as vauxhall suggested if I can't figure it out, I'll try over on VE. Thanks!
 
muchachos said:
Thanks all for the feedback.

NoTransistors I will check what you mentioned. The idler seems fairly soft, however, so it may be the mains frequency (though I am in Canada, not the States, so I'm unsure as to what the difference is here betw/ now and 1968).

likebike23 - it did occur to me that the app might be off. The turntable does sound fast though, and the app measures within .1 RPM for my Thorens, which sounds good to my ears.

I've tried to get a strobe light and disc to work in the past, but haven't been able to find any bulbs that flicker appropriately. Maybe I'll have to look into this too - I do wish not everything had to revolve around smartphones!

Will keep you posted, and as vauxhall suggested if I can't figure it out, I'll try over on VE. Thanks!
Click to expand...

Mine is the other way around! It sounds a bit slow! Cannot find the drive wheel for my model turntable!
 
Platter speed is determined by motor speed, pulley diameter, platter contact rim diameter and that is it. Idler size is of no consequence. So, as long as the wheel fits its support spindle, it may work. I quite often use 1218 idler wheels on 1009 and 1019, as they do fit and simply require a washer to snug things up a bit.
 
NoTransistors said:
Platter speed is determined by motor speed, pulley diameter, platter contact rim diameter and that is it. Idler size is of no consequence. So, as long as the wheel fits its support spindle, it may work. I quite often use 1218 idler wheels on 1009 and 1019, as they do fit and simply require a washer to snug things up a bit.
Click to expand...

I wonder if s spindle that's tapered on a 1226/1225 would fit a 1010 motor? If so, you could try moving it up a bit to increase the speed. Did this recently on a 1219. Have also used idler wheels off 1218 on 1009 or 1019s. That works well. Should have a spindle off a1226 or 1225. Yours free if I got one.. Worth a try.

Eric
 
stereofisher said:
I wonder if s spindle that's tapered on a 1226/1225 would fit a 1010 motor? If so, you could try moving it up a bit to increase the speed. Did this recently on a 1219. Have also used idler wheels off 1218 on 1009 or 1019s. That works well. Should have a spindle off a1226 or 1225. Yours free if I got one.. Worth a try.

Eric
Click to expand...
The chaps at OrganDonorParts for Dual say that the 1009 is a better match. What is the cost of the drive wheel of the 1009?
 
Most likely around $25-50? I am on vacation, returning Tuesday. I may have a wheel. Have a 1009 with a bad arm. Sucks. Yours free. Give me til Weds to get back home. Will go through my stash. May have one wheel in parts also. Will compare to my 1010S. Pic of my 1010S. Ericimage.jpeg
 
Eric what a beauty! Do you have a "spare" AW2 spindle, I would like to buy one. The arm support lock is the same as the one on dad's 1010A and the lock is no longer there, it broke off. I bought a complete support with arm lock from OrganDonorParts.com which looks like the 1010 in the parts description and not like yours.

The record player should be on top of your sound system! It should be the main topic of conversation in a friends gathering! I'll have to secure mine, as dad's didn't survive me, I was too keen on learning all things mechanical but being a kid, I had no care whatsoever and I have a toddler at home! Now the techs that saw these mechanical jewels are long gone, perhaps playing records to some higher being!

The other day I called the original distributor, a department store owned by the Federspiel family of German descent, to see if they knew the whereabouts of the former Dual technicians, and I said I would like to repair my record changer and the young chap answering the phone said, we only sell turntables...
 
Today I connected the Dual 1010A to the tuner with a set called The Essential Miles Davis. And it is sublime! The speeds seem to be OK. However in 33 rpm the automatic stops quite after the tone arm is raised and the driver wheel seems to be sleeping. I have give the record player platter a hand. Also the Stop doesn't work and at the end of the record, there is no return. Only in 45 rpm. I yet have to find the correct tracking force for the Shure MB70B pickup! Regards, Robert
 
I should have a spindle kicking around here. The one shown was being tried out to see if it works. It did and I sent it to an Aker. Yesterday I went through some Dual parts and found a 1009 wheel. Your 1010 needs a good clean up. If the wheel is soft and pliable a light sanding on it and cleaning the platter is one thing I do. Underneath there is a big gear that has 40 year old dried grease. Remove with a cotton swap and regrease. I use Lubriplate. A light drop of oil on the center that platter rides on is done at the same time. Not sure a 1009 wheel will fit a 1010. Can check if you need it.

Eric
 
stereofisher said:
I should have a spindle kicking around here. The one shown was being tried out to see if it works. It did and I sent it to an Aker. Yesterday I went through some Dual parts and found a 1009 wheel. Your 1010 needs a good clean up. If the wheel is soft and pliable a light sanding on it and cleaning the platter is one thing I do. Underneath there is a big gear that has 40 year old dried grease. Remove with a cotton swap and regrease. I use Lubriplate. A light drop of oil on the center that platter rides on is done at the same time. Not sure a 1009 wheel will fit a 1010. Can check if you need it.

Eric
Click to expand...
We at the shop (I work at a printing shop) gave it a thorough clean with Isopropyl alcohol and lubed the main cam with Lubriplate as Shell Albania is not found here. The drive wheel gives a good speed to the records, but has no power to overcome the cam and the arm getting to position also the arm returns back a couple of millimeters and mines the 12" records.

The motor drive was seized and the chap in maintenance gave it a once over. It seems to have little power. But the speeds make the records both 45 and 33 sound "correct". So it might be what you say. I am on eBay bidding for an AW2.

Take care and enjoy your record player. I was a very mischievous kid with dad's and dad wanted me to learn about things, but I destroyed the mechanism now I have purchased the main lever from the chaps of OrganDonorParts.com and can't wait any more to receive them.

Which record player would you buy today? A 1019, 1009 SK, or a 1229? Any other model that you might recommend?

Regards,

Robert H. Bruce
 
Make sure you check the speed with a record actually playing....and with a full stack of records on that platter. They may have made it fast intentionally to account for that extra drag.
 
Robert Bruce said:
We at the shop (I work at a printing shop) gave it a thorough clean with Isopropyl alcohol and lubed the main cam with Lubriplate as Shell Albania is not found here. The drive wheel gives a good speed to the records, but has no power to overcome the cam and the arm getting to position also the arm returns back a couple of millimeters and mines the 12" records.

The motor drive was seized and the chap in maintenance gave it a once over. It seems to have little power. But the speeds make the records both 45 and 33 sound "correct". So it might be what you say. I am on eBay bidding for an AW2.

Take care and enjoy your record player. I was a very mischievous kid with dad's and dad wanted me to learn about things, but I destroyed the mechanism now I have purchased the main lever from the chaps of OrganDonorParts.com and can't wait any more to receive them.

Which record player would you buy today? A 1019, 1009 SK, or a 1229? Any other model that you might recommend?

Regards,

Robert H. Bruce
Click to expand...

Would buy any of the Dual's you mentioned. Not really looking. My Dual family now includes a 1010S, four 1219s, and a 1229. Guess you would say I like 1219s! Have one early 1219, two later models, and one bought in Germany with multiple voltages. They all work. The German one is a little ratty and needs a speed selector. All were parts candidates off EBay. Too good to junk! The early 1219 is minty. I like my 1229 too. Will likely flip the last one. Glad it's not mint. Then I would want to keep it! Here is the 1219 family in the shop. image.jpeg
 
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