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DUAL 1019 owners.... good for playing 78s?? Manual mode - Auto Return Question

operaman

operaman

Super Member
Dear all of you experienced 78rpm spinners....

I am looking for a table to play back 78s. The auto-return issue is on my mind.

Looking closely at the DUAL 1019 - it has a setting called "Manual" - does this mean Auto Return is disabled, allowing the tonearm to continue all the way to center of 78 disc without auto-returning?

Anyone who owns a DUAL 1019, can you tell me how the Manual setting works?

Anyone who spins 78rpm a lot, can you recommend a better table for this purpose? Something "budget" minded, please!

Thanks all in advance!
 
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I don't have the answer to the exact question, but I can tell you that I use a Dual 1212 for 78's. It is only automatic (can't switch it off) and I've not had any issues with it returning before the disc is over. (I think that was you concern?)
 
The manual setting works like this: It allows you to cue the stylus manually and then switch the manual setting to get the platter spinning. It will still auto return at the end of the record. Also, the manual control will not remain engaged while the arm is on the armrest. The arm has to be moved over toward the LP for it to latch. Moving the arm off the rest won't make the platter start spinning like the later Duals.
 
I had a Dual 1228 that I used for 78's. Auto return worked fine for all but Little Wonder records. The headshell is an issue, swapping back and forth is a pain and headshells are hard to find/expensive.

The sound was good, but having a standard headshell that accepts screw on weights is a better solution, especially if you use multiple carts with different sized stylii.

I would suggest a technics sp-15 or a new AT that is adequate for 78.
 
I had been using an Audio Technica AT-PL120, and later a Garrard SL12B, for 78s and thought that was "good enough" - until I scored a Dual 1019 at Goodwill last summer (just $29.99!). I moved my Shure M78S cart over to the Dual and was literally stunned at how much better my 78s sounded! In fact, the 1019 has replaced my AR-XA and Technics SL-1200MK2 as my #1 for microgroove use too! (I bought a second headshell insert on eBay and use a Shure M91ED with Jico SAS. Outstanding!)

Hint: damp the 1019's wooden base with Mortite for significantly improved fidelity.

In fully automatic mode, the 1019's arm drops too fast (especially when set for 78), so I manually cue it, but the auto return has never been a problem.

If you're interested, I can send you a recording of a 78 played on my 1019, so you can hear just how good it sounds. Send me a PM with your email address!
 
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Thanks to you all.

Beatcomber, your anecdotes are extremely helpful. I wonder if perhaps the Duals of the era we are talking about were made to be sensitive to the longer play area (deeper toward the spindle) that 78s sometimes use. I am a classical spinner, and the 78s I play tend to go far far into the center, and I've heard this is an issue on ALL turntables. But I will try to score a 1019 and if I must I will disable the auto return "surgically".

Thank you!

And PS thanks too for the Mortite suggestion - I will try it (when I get there).
 
A nice Technics SP-10 Mk II or SP-15 is what people who transfer vintage discs for a living use. The Dual you are looking at is excellent for 78 use in nice condition but most likely will need some attention to make sing. I second a SP-15 with an Audio-Technica ATP tonearm for the job if possible but don't discount better Dual tables like what you are considering.
 
Operaman, I posted a link in dollars and cents to a modded Sony 78 table on CL (upstate) I'm typing from my phone, so can't give a link here.

But it looked like a solid rig.
 
The way to play a 78 manually with the 1019 is thus:

With the record on the platter, pick up the headshell with the finger lift. While moving the arm/headshell/cartridge toward the record, move the "manual, stop, start" knob toward "manual" with a free finger on the same hand. The platter will then start and you just set the stylus down on the lead-in.

The platter will also rotate if you move the tonearm off the rest, place it on the little ledge toward the center, and move the knob to "manual".

When the record is done, the auto-return will return the arm to the rest and the TT will shut off.

To use the automatic function and have the arm set down gently, cue the arm first with the cue lever. Now move the same knob to "start". The arm will descend slowly to the record and the rest of the sequence is the same as manual.

I have never had a problem with end-of-record trip regardless of how close to the center the playable area gets. This is a velocity mechanism and as long as the tonearm is progressing slowly, it won't trip the return.

EDIT: And, of course, I agree with beatcomber on the excellent sound from the 1019 with a Shure M78S cartridge on 78s.

Doug
 
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Doug:
Interesting -- this is the second time this week someone mentioned the "velocity mechanism" auto return. I always thought the auto-return was a function of the tonearm passing a certain location and tripping the mechanism, but perhaps this was only the case for very old (Garrard Type A) or very new (Technics) turntables.

Thanks!
 
I have been using a Dual 1210 since the mid 80's for 78's with a shure M75 type D. Still using the same idler wheel I put in then and still have a spare if mine or my dad's 1210 goes down. A 1219 would be nice to find.
 
operaman said:
Doug:
Interesting -- this is the second time this week someone mentioned the "velocity mechanism" auto return. I always thought the auto-return was a function of the tonearm passing a certain location and tripping the mechanism, but perhaps this was only the case for very old (Garrard Type A) or very new (Technics) turntables.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

You're welcome.

A mechanism that just depends on the tonearm location to trip could not be used in a turntable that accomodates multiple speeds because of the basic difference in label/runout sizes unless the trip point were changed as you change speed.

It would also require strict standards on the part of record manufacturers.

The impracticality of this resulted in the development of the velocity trip mechanism.

Doug
 
operaman said:
Beatcomber, your anecdotes are extremely helpful. I wonder if perhaps the Duals of the era we are talking about were made to be sensitive to the longer play area (deeper toward the spindle) that 78s sometimes use. I am a classical spinner, and the 78s I play tend to go far far into the center, and I've heard this is an issue on ALL turntables.
Click to expand...

I have played 12" 78s on my 1019 with no problems whatsoever. (The labels on the 12" 78s are smaller than LP labels.)
 
Doug G. said:
To use the automatic function and have the arm set down gently, cue the arm first with the cue lever. Now move the same knob to "start". The arm will descend slowly to the record and the rest of the sequence is the same as manual.
Click to expand...

Mine doesn't work that way; I still have to manually lower the cue lever even after the arm cycles into position.
 
What's supposed to happen is, after you cue the arm up and then push the control to "start", the cueing lever should flop back to the lowered position before the arm moves to the record.

Then the arm lowers real slowly like when you use the cue lever to lower it.

Doug
 
Doug G. said:
What's supposed to happen is, after you cue the arm up and then push the control to "start", the cueing lever should flop back to the lowered position before the arm moves to the record.

Then the arm lowers real slowly like when you use the cue lever to lower it.
Click to expand...

Sometimes it flops back like you say, but usually it doesn't on mine. No biggie!
 
Doug;
Thank you for your explanation. BUT i recently encountered a website that advertises specially-souped-up turntables that they claim are perfect for 78rpm playback, and they claimed the tables had been "auto-return disabled" because it is incompatible with the play area on 78s. So I am not completely alone in having this concern. What say you?

In any case, I managed to score a decent Dual with 78 speed and it will arrive soon so I can find out for myself whether I have any problem in this area.

cheers
 
operaman said:
Doug;
Thank you for your explanation. BUT i recently encountered a website that advertises specially-souped-up turntables that they claim are perfect for 78rpm playback, and they claimed the tables had been "auto-return disabled" because it is incompatible with the play area on 78s. So I am not completely alone in having this concern. What say you?

In any case, I managed to score a decent Dual with 78 speed and it will arrive soon so I can find out for myself whether I have any problem in this area.

cheers
Click to expand...

I guess the first thing I want to say is, please remember that there is more BS in the audio field than any other.

Now, are these "souped up" turntables Duals? And what do they do to them to "soup them up"?

Almost all modern era turntables use the velocity trip design for auto return because it is the only one that accomodates all the various label sizes and groove configurations in the runout area.

I have never had an issue with auto return on my 1019 (or any of my other turntables, for that matter) and if there are those out there insisting there IS an issue, they are full of it.

I'm sure your Dual will play all 78s just fine.

Doug
 
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