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Dual 1209 - abnormal static & groove noise?

ssouci

ssouci

Well-Known Member
I'm resurrecting my old Dual 1209 turntable

did a basic mechanical cleanup and lube... motor runs strong and steady, idler wheel cleaned, etc.

installed a used Shure M91ED body, with a brand-new Tonar aftermarket stylus

I've done some basic cartridge setup:
- cartridge positioned within the mounting screw slots at about 2/3 of the way toward the tip of the tonearm
- cartridge seems pretty perpendicular to the grooves, I used a (printable) protractor and lined it up by eye
- tonearm was first balanced (stylus tip vs. record surface), then tracking and antiskating set to 1.5 grams
- I'm cleaning records using a microfiber cloth moistened with distilled water spray (temporary)

RESULT:
yes, music is playing and it sounds pretty decent, BUT, it sounds very staticy, and, I can hear the needle tracing the grooves a fair bit (on empty/blank grooves)...

sure, my records generally aren't in great shape, and I'm used to playing dead-quiet CDs for so long, but the level of static does seem out of whack (especially since I'm applying a damp cloth to the vinyl just before playing)

also noticed that if I lift the needle off the record and touch the metal cuing handle (on the headshell), I get some humming, and if I pivot the tonearm back & forth, also some mild static noise... these are volume dependent

pretty sure I still have to do some fine tuning & debugging, but maybe there's actually something wrong?

DSC07406.JPG DSC07409.JPG DSC07407.JPG DSC07405.JPG

my thoughts on possible causes:

1. the VTA is way off, because I am playing single records only, yet apparently this Dual is configured assuming that something like 3 records are already sitting on the platter (since this is a "multi-disc" player, thus raising the platter height by a fair bit)... maybe I could fix this by adding in a small angled wedge in between the cartridge body and headshell, to correct the angle?... I'd rather avoid thick platter mats since the spindle becomes hidden and too short

2. I have a problem with a wire connection somewhere, probably something to do with grounding

3. that's just the way this cartridge/stylus combo sounds

would appreciate hearing other's thoughts and suggestions

thank you!
 
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I had a 1209 many years back with a Shure V15 cartridge. I always single played records and never noticed anything resembling the symptoms you described. I always thought Dual and Shure were a good match. The hum and static touching the cueing lever and pivoting the arm sure sounds like wiring or the cartridge not seated right. Static like noise in blank grooves could be the same thing just noticeable because there is no music to cover it up. Or simply the records. Are they old records? Back in the days of recycled vinyl and carbon black, hearing low level noises that sounded like static in empty grooves was not unusual if the volume was turned high.
 
yes, the records are pretty old and used (to varying degrees)

however, the level of static seems to be a bit too much even factoring that in... seems almost hypersensitive to static
 
I just noticed something. This is probably not at all related to your symptoms, but your tracking force and anti-skating force are at the maximum recommended for the cartridge/arm combination. I liked to keep tracking a little light.
 
apparently, since this is not an original stylus, it should be set to a higher tracking force (since it has a greater diameter)

Imprecise said:
I just noticed something. This is probably not at all related to your symptoms, but your tracking force and anti-skating force are at the maximum recommended for the cartridge/arm combination. I liked to keep tracking a little light.
Click to expand...
 
Clean the stylus. If you enlarge the first pic you can clearly see a big thread of fuzz hanging off the tip of the stylus.
 
yes it is a: Tonar 623-DE, elliptical... I read somewhere that the diameter was greater and thus needed more tracking force, but I could be wrong

Imprecise said:
I can see the point. But why would a replacement stylus have a different diameter? Is this the Tonar 623-ED?
Click to expand...
 
yup, I can see that loose thread as well, but that was just temporary during the photo!... normally, I keep the stylus clean and I have the issue I'm describing

jaybirdss396 said:
Clean the stylus. If you enlarge the first pic you can clearly see a big thread of fuzz hanging off the tip of the stylus.
Click to expand...
 
to clarify: the static occurs not just in empty grooves, but throughout the musical passages... both are irritating of course

the static is rather sharp, and uneven (not smooth and predictable, like white noise)... it sounds like normal minor background static, but louder and more exaggerated... almost as if the record surface was highly charged (which it's not, seeing as I wipe it with a very damp cloth)
 
Try taking the head shell off and clean the metal contacts on the tonearm where the four head shell pins make contact. Use something like deoxit and a qtip. Do not use anything abrasive. Sometimes there can be a bad contact between the head shell and tone arm which can cause hum and noise.
 
thanks everyone... I will try out a few things and report back

will also do some continuity testing between cartridge and further down the chain inside the turntable's wiring, and into the RCA interconnects
 
ssouci said:
thanks everyone... I will try out a few things and report back

will also do some continuity testing between cartridge and further down the chain inside the turntable's wiring, and into the RCA interconnects
Click to expand...

As an experiment, take one of your good LPs to Red Cat Records and ask the clerk to wash it for you.

(They sell Spin Clean washer there too.)
https://spinclean.com/

Take the record home and play it on your set up.

If you like the improvement, consider washing your LPs. :music:
 
anyone have tips on setting up the cartridge alignment?

I printed out 2 different alignment gauges and glued them to thin cardboard... which one do I use for a Dual 1209 -- Baerwald or Lofgren?

also, I plan on stacking a couple of dummy LPs on the platter to help correct the VTA
 
ssouci said:
anyone have tips on setting up the cartridge alignment?

I printed out 2 different alignment gauges and glued them to thin cardboard... which one do I use for a Dual 1209 -- Baerwald or Lofgren?

also, I plan on stacking a couple of dummy LPs on the platter to help correct the VTA
Click to expand...

Here is an after market cartridge alignment gauge that some people use.
images

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pats-Audio...nment-Gauge-for-Dual-Turntables-/301525523952

Some people put a thick cork mat under the rubber mat to help elevate the platter height - VTA. :music:
 
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