Dual 1219 - 1 step forward, 5 back

[Renouart]

I just purchased a Dual 1219 which looked to have not been used for quite a while, and seemed stored well, so I was optimistic about it working with little intervention needed. When I tested it at home, just the right channel was working. Reading some advice here, I took off the cartridge and cleaned the contacts - on this one, the head uses the fit and not the pins. I put it back on an tested it, and now there was no sound out of either channel. Realizing the head was not seated correctly, I took it off, reseated, but still no sound. Looking around some more, and thinking about checking continuity, I saw the thread on the mute switch. I cleaned the switch, one of which was not making contact when closed, and checked the continuity from the arm, and it seems like there is not a break anywhere. Connecting it up again, I still do not get any sound, and now the motor does not switch off when the arm is at rest. So, to sum up -
1. No sound right channel, cleaned contacts on head and tone arm
2. Reseated wrong, corrected reseating - no sound from with channel
3. Cleaned mute switch (which included turning plastic gears to look at how worked) - still no sound and now motor does not switch off.

I would mostly love to get the sound back, then figure out the motor, but any help for this turntable noobie would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!

 

[stereofisher]

Greeting and welcome. I am not a fan of the early headshell/sleds. Too much like the earlier 1000 series Duals. The pin type TK24 sleds are much better. Surprisingly, I do have a working TK12. Did you clean the contacts on the arm itself? Also, check to see if the small circuit board in the arm is all the way in. Sometimes they slip down causing it not to make contact. My livingroom 1219 occasionally has that issue.

I would suggest go to Vinylengine, sign up, it’s free and download the service manual. Does your turntable turn on or off moving the arm to the center. Should make a clicking sound. There are several levers connecting to the arm over to the on-off switch. The grease can get dry. 45 yr old grease. The levers don’t move or stick and thats keeping it from turning off. There is a black.cover over the switch. Lots of very small parts inside. I would check to see if the levers move when
you move the arm.

Have you worked on turntables? My approach is remove the platter. They have a c shaped clip holding it on. I take it off and leave it off. Remove platter. Take off headshell on arm to avoid breaking the stylus. Remove from wood base. Prop the turntable on its side so you can look underneath. Move arm to center while looking for movement of the levers to the the black covered switch box. If yours is on the levers are frozen in the on position. STAY out of the insides of the black box. Lots of tiny pieces that can and will break. I have seen many where dry grease keeps parts from moving.

They are several posts here that will walk you through servicing a 1219/1229. Hope this heads up will help. Once you service a 1219, they last a long time. Have about 6 or 7 years on the 1219 in my avatar<<<. While in there, the motor should be disassembled, cleaned and oiled. Mine lasted about 5 years and then it needed it again. This time it came apart easily, twenty minutes and done.

Eric

 

[NoTransistors]

Your understanding of the mute switch may be upside-down. The contacts close to mute, open to play. Also, sometimes(not on the early ones that are glued-in) the p.c. board drops down a bit and needs to be pushed back in place.

 

[T68]

Regarding the motor issue:Have you tried the old Dual trick to lock the tonearm and then activate auto play? This resets all the mechanism that one may get misaligned while working on the deck, moving stuff around.

 

[NoTransistors]

And the motor staying on is because grease on the linkage has turned to cement. Linkage includes one pivot and the entire speed control/idler carrier bracket assembly. And yet, some of these turntables survive without such a problem. Always found this wierd.

 

[stereofisher]

And the motor staying on is because grease on the linkage has turned to cement. Linkage includes one pivot and the entire speed control/idler carrier bracket assembly. And yet, some of these turntables survive without such a problem. Always found this wierd.

May be it was the way they were stored. Found that wired too.

 

[HBTim]

Just a quick note... I had the same issues you have with my 1229. same table really.

Had to go to Vinylengine as stated before and went though the service pdf that is in there. It is actually very good. What happens with these tables is they have to be totally cleaned and re-lubed. I also had to realign the switch that turns the motor on and off when you move the arm forward for manual play. It was also gummed up. the whole table underneath was.

I followed the pdf to the letter and BAM... all works perfect. I tried to skip a corner or two here and there and paid the price of opening it back up again a few times to find out that I needed to do all of it, or none of it.

here is the link to Viylengine. https://www.vinylengine.com/library/dual/1229.shtml

...scroll down to the bottom and open the diy service guide. Great pics and instructions.

you will need to register but it is free and a lot of info.

Let me know if you get hung up. Be patient and careful. lots of little parts in there. re-oiling the motor was difficult. prying the motor apart took a little thinking through but really not that big of a deal. I can send you a pic of how I did it and was easy from there.

I purchased a new aftermarket sled because mine didn't work either. It wasn't the sled. It was the mute button underneath so gummed up it would not make contact. Once I cleaned everything up that sled worked.

It is all in the gumming up bud... gots to clean that dirty girl up. lube her down nice, and take her for a spin.

 

[BilboBaggins]

Just a quick note... I had the same issues you have with my 1229. same table really.

Had to go to Vinylengine as stated before and went though the service pdf that is in there. It is actually very good. What happens with these tables is they have to be totally cleaned and re-lubed. I also had to realign the switch that turns the motor on and off when you move the arm forward for manual play. It was also gummed up. the whole table underneath was.

I followed the pdf to the letter and BAM... all works perfect. I tried to skip a corner or two here and there and paid the price of opening it back up again a few times to find out that I needed to do all of it, or none of it.

here is the link to Viylengine. https://www.vinylengine.com/library/dual/1229.shtml

...scroll down to the bottom and open the diy service guide. Great pics and instructions.

you will need to register but it is free and a lot of info.

Let me know if you get hung up. Be patient and careful. lots of little parts in there. re-oiling the motor was difficult. prying the motor apart took a little thinking through but really not that big of a deal. I can send you a pic of how I did it and was easy from there.

I purchased a new aftermarket sled because mine didn't work either. It wasn't the sled. It was the mute button underneath so gummed up it would not make contact. Once I cleaned everything up that sled worked.

It is all in the gumming up bud... gots to clean that dirty girl up. lube her down nice, and take her for a spin.

Very well said, sir!

The bottom line is, they are excellent tables once you address the issues. There are no shortcuts regarding degreasing and lubing.

Please note, if you get it all going and it works fine in manual, but misbehaves in auto, you likely need to replace the steurpimpel. It is much easier than you think, and you have an unlimited steurpimpel supply in pen ink tubes. All you have to do is cut it to the right size. Enlarge the hole a little bit, and test it. I normally do them slightly larger, and then shave it down until it is right. It has taken me up to 5 tries to do it, but that was my first one.

 

[HBTim]

Very well said, sir!

The bottom line is, they are excellent tables once you address the issues. There are no shortcuts regarding degreasing and lubing.

Please note, if you get it all going and it works fine in manual, but misbehaves in auto, you likely need to replace the steurpimpel. It is much easier than you think, and you have an unlimited steurpimpel supply in pen ink tubes. All you have to do is cut it to the right size. Enlarge the hole a little bit, and test it. I normally do them slightly larger, and then shave it down until it is right. It has taken me up to 5 tries to do it, but that was my first one.

Good point... I bought my rubber o-ring and pimple off the bay for line 6 bucks.

Pay very close attention to replacing theat rubber o-ring. There a couple of small bearing in there that you will want to keep a close eye on. If they are missing let me know. Another AK’r here had to buy a few of them until we got the right diameter ball bearings. If you look i there and that o-ring is dry rot or not even there, this will also cause problems with mechanical functions.

Don’t get discouraged, lots of little things to keep in mind but very worth the inexpensive but tedious fix.

That play very very well once gone through.

Haven’t seen you post back, so hopefully you haven’t already given up.

 

[Renouart]

Greeting and welcome. I am not a fan of the early headshell/sleds. Too much like the earlier 1000 series Duals. The pin type TK24 sleds are much better. Surprisingly, I do have a working TK12. Did you clean the contacts on the arm itself? Also, check to see if the small circuit board in the arm is all the way in. Sometimes they slip down causing it not to make contact. My livingroom 1219 occasionally has that issue.

I would suggest go to Vinylengine, sign up, it’s free and download the service manual. Does your turntable turn on or off moving the arm to the center. Should make a clicking sound. There are several levers connecting to the arm over to the on-off switch. The grease can get dry. 45 yr old grease. The levers don’t move or stick and thats keeping it from turning off. There is a black.cover over the switch. Lots of very small parts inside. I would check to see if the levers move when
you move the arm.

Have you worked on turntables? My approach is remove the platter. They have a c shaped clip holding it on. I take it off and leave it off. Remove platter. Take off headshell on arm to avoid breaking the stylus. Remove from wood base. Prop the turntable on its side so you can look underneath. Move arm to center while looking for movement of the levers to the the black covered switch box. If yours is on the levers are frozen in the on position. STAY out of the insides of the black box. Lots of tiny pieces that can and will break. I have seen many where dry grease keeps parts from moving.

They are several posts here that will walk you through servicing a 1219/1229. Hope this heads up will help. Once you service a 1219, they last a long time. Have about 6 or 7 years on the 1219 in my avatar<<<. While in there, the motor should be disassembled, cleaned and oiled. Mine lasted about 5 years and then it needed it again. This time it came apart easily, twenty minutes and done.

Eric

Thank you for the suggestions, I have not had a chance to go back to it yet, will look where you suggest, for the posts on servicing.

 

[Renouart]

Your understanding of the mute switch may be upside-down. The contacts close to mute, open to play. Also, sometimes(not on the early ones that are glued-in) the p.c. board drops down a bit and needs to be pushed back in place.

Thanks, I wasn't sure of that, but that makes sense since it was the shorting that causes the mute. I will look to see if the circuit opens when the tonearm moves over the platter.

 

[Renouart]

Regarding the motor issue:Have you tried the old Dual trick to lock the tonearm and then activate auto play? This resets all the mechanism that one may get misaligned while working on the deck, moving stuff around.

Thanks, I will give this a try.

 

[Renouart]

Just a quick note... I had the same issues you have with my 1229. same table really.

Had to go to Vinylengine as stated before and went though the service pdf that is in there. It is actually very good. What happens with these tables is they have to be totally cleaned and re-lubed. I also had to realign the switch that turns the motor on and off when you move the arm forward for manual play. It was also gummed up. the whole table underneath was.

I followed the pdf to the letter and BAM... all works perfect. I tried to skip a corner or two here and there and paid the price of opening it back up again a few times to find out that I needed to do all of it, or none of it.

here is the link to Viylengine. https://www.vinylengine.com/library/dual/1229.shtml

...scroll down to the bottom and open the diy service guide. Great pics and instructions.

you will need to register but it is free and a lot of info.

Let me know if you get hung up. Be patient and careful. lots of little parts in there. re-oiling the motor was difficult. prying the motor apart took a little thinking through but really not that big of a deal. I can send you a pic of how I did it and was easy from there.

I purchased a new aftermarket sled because mine didn't work either. It wasn't the sled. It was the mute button underneath so gummed up it would not make contact. Once I cleaned everything up that sled worked.

It is all in the gumming up bud... gots to clean that dirty girl up. lube her down nice, and take her for a spin.

Thanks for link - looking forward to getting this working!

 

[Renouart]

I really appreciate everyones suggestions, should have it working once I find the time to get serious with it. Thanks, everyone!

 

[David_NC]

I also have a 1219 that seemed like it would play fine as I purchased it. That was not the case. Even after cleaning the grease out, re-lubing it, and replacing the 'pimple, the auto functions worked fine, but there was too much friction for the tonearm to move when playing. It turns out the dearing ring, which adjusts the tonearm depending on whether it's set to single- vs multi- play had cracked. Hardened lube would not allow it to move when the single / multi lever was changed, and it cracked. One shop wanted to lock it into single-play height, which was an option, but not for $300. I ended up sending it to Canada where I had it completely rebuilt. Every part was stripped from underneath and cleaned, the motor was disassembled and lubed, all other parts lubed, reassembled, adjusted, and the broken dearing ring was replaced with a metal version. Yeah, this 'table didn't turn out quite as cheap as I'd thought when I purchased it, but I have no doubt it'll be as close to new as any 1219 around. Once FedEx delivers it in a few days, I'll post a thread on it.

 

[HBTim]

I also have a 1219 that seemed like it would play fine as I purchased it. That was not the case. Even after cleaning the grease out, re-lubing it, and replacing the 'pimple, the auto functions worked fine, but there was too much friction for the tonearm to move when playing. It turns out the dearing ring, which adjusts the tonearm depending on whether it's set to single- vs multi- play had cracked. Hardened lube would not allow it to move when the single / multi lever was changed, and it cracked. One shop wanted to lock it into single-play height, which was an option, but not for $300. I ended up sending it to Canada where I had it completely rebuilt. Every part was stripped from underneath and cleaned, the motor was disassembled and lubed, all other parts lubed, reassembled, adjusted, and the broken dearing ring was replaced with a metal version. Yeah, this 'table didn't turn out quite as cheap as I'd thought when I purchased it, but I have no doubt it'll be as close to new as any 1219 around. Once FedEx delivers it in a few days, I'll post a thread on it.

Man, can't wait to see that!!

 

[David_NC]

Man, can't wait to see that!!

I know! Having seen the 500+ pics that Klaus sent of the various stages, I'm convinced it'll be better than new; every piece is within spec, etc. I'm getting kinda antsy about firing it up. It'd be fun to compare it to some other 'tables for sure.