Dual 1219 size selector not working properly after motor lube.....help!

[Fishead]

Last evening I decided to pull the motor on my 1219 and do some maintenance consisting of just oiling it properly as it was beginning to make some noise. Got done with the job and thought all was well except when I went to put it through the paces, the size selector no longer sets the arm down in the proper position. It seems to work OK on the 12 inch position, but both 10 inch and 7 inch do not travel far enough in and in fact, are erratic to boot with the arm setting down often in the 12 inch position despite the lever being at one of the other sizes. I did not, knowingly, disturb anything else on the underside of the deck but clearly, I must have as it is now not working the way it should, and the way it did before I did the motor lube. I did spend quite a bit of time adjusting the stepped motor shaft up and down until the speed was right, with the speed fine-tuning indicator now right in the middle of the + and - range but really can't see how I did anything that would affect the size selector. The lever works fine, moves easily between the three positions, but it doesn't seem to engage the arm properly to get it to move as it should. Any help would be appreciated.

PS - and yes, I did examine the Steuerpimpel and it appears intact and without issue. Several years ago, I ordered a new one but did not install it as the original still appeared to be in fine condition so left well enough alone. It's still there and apparently working as intended....

PS 2 - More grist for the mill......I find that if I toggle the single/multi selector back and forth 3 or 4 times, the tonearm will drop at the right place after I do that on the first "start" operation but after that, it goes back to being wonky.....toggle that switch back and forth again and it will work properly again for the first "start" but not after that.

 

[loudnoises]

There is generally one course of action with these tables, clean and lube where necessary. Especially if it was working before, that's all you should really need in most cases. But you know this already. It's our penance for using 60 year old tables.


The size selector has nothing to do with the motor, so you may have just dislodged some old gunk or dust. Might have just hit the line on your pimple too, they will wear out eventually.

 

[Fishead]

Thanks, @loudnoises.....the odd thing is that it was working perfectly before I did the motor, then after putting it back together I have this size selector thing going on.....I have observed something, however, that might be at least in part causing the problem. There is a smallish black rubber collar-looking thing that appears to have given up the ghost, meaning it has split and while still in position, definitely looking like it could drop outta there any minute. Here's a picture of it from a number of years ago when it was still good:



It's split now and just kind of hanging on there. Kind of like a flattish tire that goes around that brass-looking post.

I'm trying to find a parts diagram/service manual but VE tells me I've exceeded my quota for the day (even though I have not downloaded a single manual!!!! something most strange been going on with that site for a long time now) and have not been able to find where the guides/manuals reside here on AK. Any help appreciated as always.....we'll get this thing done, but I'm definitely going to have to source one of those black rubber collars/washer/whatever it might be that also looks like it may be keeping a ball bearing in place beneath it......scarier all the time but I'm still standing and it's like round 15!!!

 

[Penn42]

There's a notch at the end of 259 "locating slide" (yellow outline, notch not visible in photo). That notch creates a stopping point that a small spring loaded pin (green arrow) that's part of 181 "Segment" (pink outline) catches to truncate the movement of the arm at whichever size record the size selector is set too. The elevation of the locating slide adjusts based on a bunch of other pieces and their springs (orange circles).

 

[Fishead]

Thank you @Penn42, very generous of you!

As it turns out, I may have discovered the issue in the 16th round and it went back to that rubber sleeve that I posted the picture of. I pulled the old one off and it literally fell apart, removed the two small ball bearings using the magnet trick and cleaned them as they had a "cake" of gunk on one side each, so I doubt they were moving a whole lot as they should be. Put a few drops of 3 in 1 electric motor oil on them and re-fitted them into their respective openings, which turned out to be a bit of a trick too because one of them is on the far side of that post and hard to see anything back there......using a lightly magnetized screwdriver and a sliver of a credit card to "tuck" them in since they would come right back out otherwise given the magnetism. Man, this stuff is tedious! Especially for those of us who don't have the right tools, which are likely to be very specialized and no doubt developed over time by more seasoned techs......don't think they're using slivers of credit cards and the like!

But now the real dilemma......what to use in place of the rubber sleeve? It's not like I have a stash of those laying around in my parts box, right? So, measured the inside diameter of the original sleeve and it looked to be a hair shy of 9mm and started a search around here for something that fit the bill. I remembered tossing a piece of high pressure rubber hose in my toolbox, think it was left over from a job I did on my old Mercedes SL years ago, and actually found it! Measured the inside diameter and it was......just a hair shy of 9mm!!! So, this is good right? But now I needed to cut it to the same thickness of the original and do so evenly. Done, and now how to get the thing over the stub and on it without dislodging the ball bearings??? That proved to be quite a task, and required me to break out the dental tools, a couple of picks, so I could massage the sleeve on there with the help of a little of that 3 in 1 oil.

So, finally ready to put things back together and try it out.....to my delight the size selector was now working exactly as it should and the lever that controls single and multi play also moves up and down as it should. A small victory indeed, but being OCD I will now order the correct rubber sleeve from that business, TurntableExperts I believe, but in the meantime I have a working 1219 and ball bearings that aren't going anywhere between now and when the new part arrives.

I know I'm not the first, nor will I be the last that encounters this problem with a 1219 so hopefully this writeup will be of assistance to someone at some point. I know that if I had found this information this morning when I first began the work I'd have had it done in a couple hours rather than the eight that it took me.....but hey, are we having fun yet??? Carry on amigos......

 

[spicer]

Thank you @Penn42, very generous of you!

As it turns out, I may have discovered the issue in the 16th round and it went back to that rubber sleeve that I posted the picture of. I pulled the old one off and it literally fell apart, removed the two small ball bearings using the magnet trick and cleaned them as they had a "cake" of gunk on one side each, so I doubt they were moving a whole lot as they should be. Put a few drops of 3 in 1 electric motor oil on them and re-fitted them into their respective openings, which turned out to be a bit of a trick too because one of them is on the far side of that post and hard to see anything back there......using a lightly magnetized screwdriver and a sliver of a credit card to "tuck" them in since they would come right back out otherwise given the magnetism. Man, this stuff is tedious! Especially for those of us who don't have the right tools, which are likely to be very specialized and no doubt developed over time by more seasoned techs......don't think they're using slivers of credit cards and the like!

But now the real dilemma......what to use in place of the rubber sleeve? It's not like I have a stash of those laying around in my parts box, right? So, measured the inside diameter of the original sleeve and it looked to be a hair shy of 9mm and started a search around here for something that fit the bill. I remembered tossing a piece of high pressure rubber hose in my toolbox, think it was left over from a job I did on my old Mercedes SL years ago, and actually found it! Measured the inside diameter and it was......just a hair shy of 9mm!!! So, this is good right? But now I needed to cut it to the same thickness of the original and do so evenly. Done, and now how to get the thing over the stub and on it without dislodging the ball bearings??? That proved to be quite a task, and required me to break out the dental tools, a couple of picks, so I could massage the sleeve on there with the help of a little of that 3 in 1 oil.

So, finally ready to put things back together and try it out.....to my delight the size selector was now working exactly as it should and the lever that controls single and multi play also moves up and down as it should. A small victory indeed, but being OCD I will now order the correct rubber sleeve from that business, TurntableExperts I believe, but in the meantime I have a working 1219 and ball bearings that aren't going anywhere between now and when the new part arrives.

I know I'm not the first, nor will I be the last that encounters this problem with a 1219 so hopefully this writeup will be of assistance to someone at some point. I know that if I had found this information this morning when I first began the work I'd have had it done in a couple hours rather than the eight that it took me.....but hey, are we having fun yet??? Carry on amigos......

Sounds like a good fix. I'd leave that fashioned rubber sleeve in place rather than risk losing one of the ball bearings. Just a thought.

 

[ESP]

Glad you got it sorted out @Fishead.
Threads like these helped me fix quite a few Duals and others.
So glad your keeping up the tradition.

 

[Fishead]

Well......the rest of the story is that this was my Dad's turntable that he wished for me to have after his passing. Sooooo......I had some special incentives to get it done and I reckon @spicer is probably right about that re-purposed high pressure rubber hose - it will likely outlive me!!! Thanks all who chimed in and provided support and encouragement, wouldn't have been nearly as much fun without you! I'm still waiting on the other shoe to drop though because I'm pretty sure that @NoTransistors will have some observations and I actually look forward to that as this is one thing I don't want to screw up, and trust he will tell me if I did, have, or shall......

 

[Fishead]

All tidied up.....ready for bed and some action tomorrow! Checked the cartridge setup and my activities had indeed thrown the VTF off a bit, but that was easy enough to sort.

 

[spicer]

Well......the rest of the story is that this was my Dad's turntable that he wished for me to have after his passing. Sooooo......I had some special incentives to get it done and I reckon @spicer is probably right about that re-purposed high pressure rubber hose - it will likely outlive me!!! Thanks all who chimed in and provided support and encouragement, wouldn't have been nearly as much fun without you! I'm still waiting on the other shoe to drop though because I'm pretty sure that @NoTransistors will have some observations and I actually look forward to that as this is one thing I don't want to screw up, and trust he will tell me if I did, have, or shall......

Thank you for sharing the rest of the story. That indeed is a special table and from the picture looks practically out of the box. Must be a very special experience every time you play a record.

 

[Fishead]

Post script: I just spoke with Adam at Turntable Experts.....what a nice guy and a pleasure to do business with. Highly recommended, my rubber sleeve and two extra ball bearings (in case of the inevitable as @spicer aptly warns of) are on their way.....

 

[gary7]

I just got a 1219 last week. Going thru the Not Used in a While pains. Got it working but still needs a little more touching up.

 

[Mangler]

I wish I could remember the guy on Fleabay I got my Steuerpimpel from he threw in 2 of those rubber bearing containment bands for free. With a little note saying "bonus" I still have one taped to the paper he sent. Gosh it has to have been over 10 years ago now.. Im getting old. So.. Thank you ebay man.