Dual 1229 noise

[samid]

Hi,
I got a used Dual 1229 recently, and while overall it works fine, there is what seems to me to be excessive noise from the "drive train". I tried to isolate it, and I *think* the problem is the idler wheel - but I may be mis-interpreting what I found. What I did was, first I put a stethoscope to the turntable, and could hear the noise from the motor well enough. Then I removed the platter, and with motor running I could not hear any noise at all (well, almost). But when I moved the idler wheel with my finger so that it touched the motor spindle and started rotating, the noise appeared at about the same level as when the table was running normally (with the platter). And, when holding the idler's axle with my finger, I could even feel vibrations. Hence my guess is that the problem could be with the idler wheel - even though, to my eye at least, it looks fine. So, my question is - am I right in assuming that the idler wheel is the problem? If so, how can I try to fix it, if not what could be the problem and what can I try to fix it?
Any suggestions will be much appreciated.

 

[OvenMaster]

First thing I'd try is a drop of oil on the idler's spindle, samid. It's probably never been lubed at any time in the past 35 years. I'd also very lightly oil the platter bearing. Bet your noise goes away then... unless they're both worn out!
Tom

 

[samid]

Thanks for the advice. In fact I did oil the idler - unfortunately, cannot say it did much good. I did not oil the platter - but as I wrote, the noise is there even without the platter, so not sure how oiling its bearing would help.

 

[OvenMaster]

Wasn't sure if that's where the noise was coming from.
Another possibility is that the motor needs to be lubed, samid. (Don't know why I didn't think of that earlier) And that means you'll need to take it apart. That's rather involved, meaning scribe marks, gently knocking it apart, lubing, and putting it back together again. Excessive noise from the motor after it's oiled would potentially mean that the motor bearings are shot and you'd need to look for a new motor. There are threads here at AK that describe motor lubing in detail.

If this is too daunting, I strongly advise you to contact AKer's No Transistors, bohhey, or Fred Longworth on this. The 1229 is a superb table that is worth the effort!

Tom

 

[Fred Longworth]

The dominant failure mode on the 1229 in this area is that the idler wheel arm assembly is sticky, at the hinge where the arm assembly interfaces with the speed selector. This causes inadequate pressure of the idler wheel against the motor pulley.

The second most common failure is that the motor itself is producing vibrations. In order to fix this, the motor must be disassembled, the bushings cleaned and lubed, and then the motor reassembled and the top bushing assembly seated.

Fred

 

[samid]

Thanks for replies guys. I have read about re-lubing the motor (in a thread on this forum, in fact - that's what prompted me to post my question here, seeing all the knowledgeable people posting here), and *think* I can handle that... at least, I'm going to attempt it. I have a question to Fred though - I haven't seen references to the arm being sticky. Two questions rather: (1) how can I verify it? I mean when I push the idler wheel with a finger it seems to be moving around freely enough, or is this not a good indicator? (2) if it is sticky, should I just put some oil into the hinge, or is fixing this more involved?

Thanks again for all the advice...

 

[samid]

So, here's what I did/found: I decided to take the motor out and re-lube it. I failed to take the motor apart - I did not have anything like lockring pliers, and everything else that I tried did not work (I have to say though that I did NOT try taking the hammer to the motor). But, when I've taken the motor out I noticed that the pulley had quite a bit of gunk from the idler wheel on it (I did clean it but apparently did not do a good job of it). After I cleaned the pulley properly the problem disappeared. No more rumbling noise.

Now I have another question: I read somewhere that the platter on a 1229 should rotate for more than 2 minutes after the motor's shut off. On my 1229, that time is around 1 minute - is this seriously out of spec? and if so, what is the procedure for properly cleaning the main bearing? As far as I could see, it cannot be taken out w/out removing the big plastic gear... but maybe I'm missing something. So, if someone would explain to me how to take that bearing out correctly that'd be much appreciated.