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Dual 506 worth getting?

PapaBear

PapaBear

Active Member
Since I don't think I'm getting a Thorens anything for my birthday, should I consider a Dual 506 for $60 locally? Any things in particular to ask/check out before handing over the moola? I need a TT that will hold up as a primary. (Can't get rid of the hum issue on the 1990s Techie, and I just want to move on.)
 
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The 506 is a nice TT, but there is one caveat: it uses a proprietary cartridge mounting system, so you are limited to using the special OEM Ortofon cartridge. There is an adapter to use standard half-inch cartridges, as well as an additional balance weight, but this sort of defeats the ultra low mass (ULM) design of the tonearm.
 
I love mine! Am using an Audio Technica 120E cart with an upgraded stylus 140ML.

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Leestereo said:
The 506 is a nice TT, but there is one caveat: it uses a proprietary cartridge mounting system, so you are limited to using the special OEM Ortofon cartridge. There is an adapter to use standard half-inch cartridges, as well as an additional balance weight, but this sort of defeats the ultra low mass (ULM) design of the tonearm.
Click to expand...

That depends on the exact 506. Mine was purchased new in 1979 and has provision for mounting a standard cartridge. The captive Ortofon came a few years later. A 1980 brochure lists the ULM 50E and ULM 55E cartridges but the photos appear to be the same as my 1979 setup.

Replacement belts take a bit of searching. Needle Doctor in Minneapolis sent 2 different belts, neither of which would fit properly. They did take them back for a full refund. I finally found the correct belt from Studio Sound Electronics.
 
Thanks for the input. I have asked the seller about the mount and weight. Waiting to hear back.

It is a nice looking unit. Back in those days, I had a Pioneer tt. I was happy with it, so I didn't pay all that much attention to other brands. I do recall that opinions of Dual were all over the place...never got a sense of whether or not it was well-regarded.
 
Fred: Would you post a pic of that, please? Because I'm not aware of a non-ULM variant of the 506, so I'd like to see that...

Btw, be aware that the initial 506 still was 1st gen. proprietary ULM, while the 506-1 already was second generation. Iirc, Dual didn't correspondingly change the model number on part #69, though, so that the two variants are easy to confuse.

Main difference between the two mounts: The second generation proprietary ULM mount was even lighter, but unfortunately at the same time rather fragile - and its halfinch-mount adaptor plate at least for my taste is really ugly, while the adaptor plate for the first generation is a lot nicer to look at and might not even be recognised as an adaptor solution at the first glance...

The other main difference between the 506 and the 506-1 was the motor, as the former still sported the 8-pole SM860, while the latter already had the 16-pole SM100.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
 
Leestereo said:
The 506 is a nice TT, but there is one caveat: it uses a proprietary cartridge mounting system, so you are limited to using the special OEM Ortofon cartridge. There is an adapter to use standard half-inch cartridges, as well as an additional balance weight, but this sort of defeats the ultra low mass (ULM) design of the tonearm.
Click to expand...

Yep. If it can handle a standard cartridge and has a nice one, why not. But if it's the Dual Ortofon looking one, i'd leave it be as your options are limited.
For me, often the cartridge makes or breaks a deal on a turntable. It did just the other day for me.
 
lini said:
Fred: Would you post a pic of that, please? Because I'm not aware of a non-ULM variant of the 506, so I'd like to see that...
.....
The other main difference between the 506 and the 506-1 was the motor, as the former still sported the 8-pole SM860, while the latter already had the 16-pole SM100.
Click to expand...

Picture in due time.

I have the 8 pole motor.

Looks to be simply a 506, nothing indicating "-1".
 
These are pics of the TT from the ad. Can one of you ID if the adapter and cw are present? Seller is clueless (it was his father's). Said he thinks it has it, but isn't sure.

Danke. :)
 

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That would be a 506-1 - and I can't see any traces of the adaptor kit. In addition the counterweight looks not quite right to me, but maybe that's just the perspective...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
 
I'm tentatively going to look at it tomorrow night. Any pics of just what I should see on it? Going by Manfred said, it probably needs the adapter (which someone said they can sell me). Any idea how easy it is to get the counterweight, and the cost? Looks like I may be able to talk the price down at least $20.
 
Agree with lini, the counter weight has an issue; it is usually decoupled from its housing by a leaf spring and in this case it looks like this spring has weakened over time, allowing the weight to sag. This may be fixable since there is an adjustment screw on the counter weight.

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The additional weight may not be needed if you use a light 1/2" mount cartridge such as the Ortofon OM series (replacement styli for this series are easily obtained).
 
One advantage of the Ortofon ULM cartridges is they allow the turntable to play on its side. Have a look at the video below :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ja5DQHnk17c&list=UU6fZSYASHGozW4KedqYUGkg

The advantages of being able to play on its side might not be immediately obvious. Why would I want to do this? Well, say you have a record with a really bad warp. Some turntables might have problems tracking it, but not these Duals. When my dad bought his 505-1, the guy in the store put a cigarette under the record, and proceeded to play it, without skipping I might add.

Those Ortofon ULM carts are pretty nice sounding in my opinion. My dad bought an adapter kit later on, which allowed fitting standard 1/2" mount cartridges, I think he went with another Ortofon, this time an OM-20.

Lee.
 
Finally got some pictures after going through the 300 page camera instruction manual and 8 levels of on screen menus to do manual focus.

The screw on top releases the mounting adapter. The actual cartridge mounting screws can be seen below. Some cartridges are more easily mounted with the nuts on top, others with the nuts on bottom.


dual506 1401
15248791985_23cef8775f_k.jpg

dual506 1402
15062039379_1ec98fee61_k.jpg
 
leesonic said:
One advantage of the Ortofon ULM cartridges is they allow the turntable to play on its side.
.....
Click to expand...

That is actually a function of the turntable itself, not the cartridge. Most turntables are adjusted by balancing the arm with the counterweight, then the tracking force is set by moving the counterweight which actually sets the arm off balance.

With most Duals (and Empire, and a few others), after balancing with the counterweight, the tracking force is applied with a spring. So, "down" is always toward the record regardless of the turntable position. With a record clamp, the turntable will even play upside down. I have amazed visitors by picking up the turntable and rotating it to various positions while a record is playing.

Advantages of this "true dynamic balancing" is the turntable is slightly less subject to problems with external shock and vibration and it does not need to be level.

I first learned of this in the 1960s from an Empire advertisement that claimed that their turntables would play upside down.
 
fred soop said:
That is actually a function of the turntable itself, not the cartridge. Most turntables are adjusted by balancing the arm with the counterweight, then the tracking force is set by moving the counterweight which actually sets the arm off balance.

With most Duals (and Empire, and a few others), after balancing with the counterweight, the tracking force is applied with a spring. So, "down" is always toward the record regardless of the turntable position. With a record clamp, the turntable will even play upside down. I have amazed visitors by picking up the turntable and rotating it to various positions while a record is playing.

Advantages of this "true dynamic balancing" is the turntable is slightly less subject to problems with external shock and vibration and it does not need to be level.

I first learned of this in the 1960s from an Empire advertisement that claimed that their turntables would play upside down.
Click to expand...

But you can't do it with a "conventional" cartridge as it's too heavy, which is why you need the ULM cartridge.

Lee.
 
leesonic said:
But you can't do it with a "conventional" cartridge as it's too heavy, which is why you need the ULM cartridge.

Lee.
Click to expand...

If the arm is balanced (you may need the supplemental weight that Dual supplies) it will play in any position. I have done it with the ADC cartridge pictured, along with a Shure cartridge (heavier), and previously a Garrard Lab 80 with a couple of different cartridges and a heavier arm overall.
 
Lee: No, Lee, that's not true. That works for practically any Dual model with dynamically balanced arm. So, provided the cart is within the balancing range of the counterweight, its actual weight doesn't really play a role.


the other Lee: I think the leaf spring suspension only applies to the antiresonator counterweight, and I think the 506 and 506-1 weren't eqipped with that (at least over here) - which is what worries me, as that could mean that on the depicted exemplar the counterweight or maybe even the back end of the arm might be damaged...


Fred: Another main advantage of dynamically balanced arms is the tracking force curve, as the tracking force will slightly increase with height, when riding over warps. To achieve a similar curve on statically balanced arms one needs an "underslung" counterweight with lowered centre of gravity.

Well, and as I see it, your 506 is just a regular, original 506 with the matching adaptor kit installed. And the proprietary Ortofon carts for these didn't come any later - there were just two variants, one for the first generation proprietary ULM mount with prefix ULM and later on the variant for the 2nd gen. with prefix TKS. The forgot to correct that in the catalogues specs of the 506-1, though, so don't be surprised to see a "ULM45E" there - the stock cart nevertheless actually was a TKS45E.


Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
 
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