Dual 522 - What am I getting into?

[chadd]

Dual CS-522 - What am I getting into?

After abandoning my cheap Sylvania linear-tracking turntable 15 years ago, I just bought a Dual CS-522 on that auction site in the hopes of enjoying my old vinyl again. If it arrives in one piece, I'm sure I'll have a lot of questions about getting it cleaned up and running. Stay tuned!

 

[chadd]

The seller did a good enough job of packing the TT, and it arrived with no apparent damage. The cueing damping is very slow, but that's better than too fast. Watching the strobe as the platter spins, it seems to hold a steady speed and respond to the speed adjustment. The motor is quiet, especially compared to my old all-plastic Sylvania. I need to solder some RCA plugs on it before I can give it a listen, since it just has bare wires.

So it appears I have a project on my hands instead of a disaster. First of all, as you can tell in the photos, it needs a really good cleaning. It's mostly dust, but there is a slightly tacky residue on the edges of the platter (old record cleaning solution?), and the stylus looks dirty, especially the plastic parts. Any suggestions for how to best go about cleaning everything up? Should I remove the chassis from the base and give it a going over on the inside as well? Should I lubricate anything, or leave it as is as long as its working?

 

[jetblack]

2-speed, auto, belt-drive. Dig in there and check things out (see what you've acquired). Check the belt. Get your TT to where you are comfortable with it. Also, check your stylus (I'm a believer in transducers). What cartridge do you have on it?

 

[chadd]

The cartridge is an Empire, and it has 300 ME printed on the side. What should I be looking for in the belt, and how should I go about checking the stylus?

 

[asoundhound]

if the platter spins as it should, holds speed, and the arm functions work, the belt is probably fine. you can check it for dry-rot visually. sometimes they turn to liquid goo. that is also visible. you can check the stylus with a magnifying glass, but your ears will be the deciding factor. i'm not familiar with your particular cartridge, but empire is my favorite. i have an rm-30, 2000eIII, a22me, 999s/ex and a 1085LT

if you search AK, you'll find lots of info on setting up a turntable.

dual makes great turntables, but they can be a little picky. there is also lots of info here on AK.

good luck!

 

[asoundhound]

oh yeah, most duals have adjustable cueing.

there is a threaded section on the post. turning it adjusts the let-down speed.

 

[bohhey]

oh yeah, most duals have adjustable cueing.

there is a threaded section on the post. turning it adjusts the let-down speed.

Politely said, the above information is incorrect. The only Duals that have adjustable cueing speed are the 704 and 721 direct drive models. They have a separate lever for that. That threaded section on the post should be left alone. That adjusts the height of the cueing during automatic functions. Too high, and it binds. Too low, and the cueing won't work properly in manual operations.

 

[jetblack]

Check for belt dry rot, as LG suggested. If the stylus looks decent (not worn), and your sound check is good, then this will be good enough to get you started. I don't know what components you have in your audio system.

If you didn't receive manuals with your gear, and you're interested in specs & setup procedures, your TT & cartridge are listed at the site below, along with many others. You can download the manuals.

http://www.vinylengine.com/library.shtml

 

[chadd]

The rest of my system is an Onkyo TX-901 receiver, which has a 2.5mV/50Kohms phono stage. My speakers are Bose 201 series III with an Acoustimass bass module. Nothing to brag about, but it's what I have right now.

I was checking out the manuals from VinylEngine while waiting for the TT to arrive. The service manual is only in German, which I don't speak. But they do have the 505 manual in English and German, so I could probably cross-reference that one for parts the two models have in common. I was happy to find the manual for the cartridge so I have an idea what tracking force to use. But I'm not sure how to go about adjusting the cartridge height and overhang, since I don't have the gauge that originally came with the 1/2" adapter kit.

 

[OvenMaster]

chadd, check out the alignment protractors at VinylEngine. I used the Baerwald Stupid and Chpratz ones with excellent results.
For cart height, a good ballpark starting area is to make sure your cart rides as level as possible, and shim the front or back for finer adjustment. When it's right, everything will sound marvelous. Good luck!
Tom

 

[jetblack]

Two things:

1) The 'instruction manuals' for your TT & cartridge are in english.

2) I was asking about your system because I was wondering if an MC cartridge for you was an option. It's not, with the receiver you have (and that's ok), unless you were to add a head amp or xformer. When I bought my 1st system in the late 70's, I made the decision to spend some extra $ on the transducers (speakers & cartridge), because that would give me the biggest bang for the buck.

 

[chadd]

I finally got the CS-522 cleaned up, soldered some RCA plugs on the wires, and gave it a test run with a few records. It sounds okay, but not great. I synchronized a CD version of the same song on a album and switched back and forth to compare the two. The turntable lacked depth and detail compared with the CD. I had to turn the speed adjustment up to the maximum to get the pitch correct according to the strobe. I played an album with sustained piano chords and the pitch sounded steady to me. The automatic functions aren't working properly (a disintegrated tonearm clutch pad, I presume), but the cueing works and I can use it as a manual for now. And switching it to 45 rpm doesn't move the belt to the fatter part of the drive spindle, so it stays at 33.

Before I solve those issues, I'd like to experiment with getting it to sound a little better. My first thought is that I should replace the stylus since I have no idea what the old one has been through. Any suggestions on what I should get? I found replacements for the Empire 300ME at LP Tunes, LP Gear, turntableneedles.com, Garage-a-records and this one on Ebay.

Or should I be looking at replacing the cartridge instead?

 

[chadd]

I couldn't resist the urge to tinker for $5, so I ordered a #223777 guide/clutch pad from www.forthegroove.com to try to get the automatic functions going again. The guide on my CS-522 is MIA. Should the pad or the plastic surface it contacts be lubricated, or clean and dry?

 

[OvenMaster]

1. If you actually get one of those clutch pads in your hands, methinks there will be other AKers ordering them; they're so hard to get, some of us have home-brewed replacements.
2. I am pretty sure that a little bit of lube should be used on the end of the clutch tip; a small amount of light grease would go there. Not oil! On my homebrew part I used a tiny amount of plain lithium grease, and I did have to clean off a lot of old, hard, dried grease with alcohol. However, your best bet would be to ask bohhey or NoTransistors for specific info.
3. I had the same problem with not being able to get 45rpm. The solution was a new belt. The old one was so stretched and flabby that it just folded underneath the speed shift fork instead of staying stiff enough to be pushed down onto the wider part of the motor pulley.
4. Your slow speed issue could be attributed to a motor badly in need of a lube job, or a motor pulley not expanding far enough to give the right speed.
5. For a replacement cartridge, Duals from that era with the ULM (Ultra Low Mass) arms love Ortofon OM series carts... they were designed around them. Better get a move on, though. They've been discontinued

Tom

 

[KentTeffeteller]

Hi,

With this series of Dual turntables, I don't recommend MC cartridges on them. The Dual needs high compliance, low mass to medium mass cartridges. Most MC cartridges are best on medium mass/higher mass arms. :tresbon:

 

[chadd]

Thanks for the replies.

According to my email receipt, forTheGroove.com is a.k.a. All-In-One Electronics of Toronto, and a few AK'ers have posted about getting Dual clutch pads from them during the past year, so hopefully I'll actually get one in the mail.

I don't quite have my head wrapped around how the speed shift fork is actuated by the speed lever yet. If I let the turntable spin with the platter removed and switch the speed lever from 33 to 45, the white plastic shift fork moves very little or not at all. If I tap it gently with my finger, it pops down into position, but more often than not it doesn't move the belt all the on to the lower part of the drive pulley. I suppose a new belt should fix that part of it, but it still seems like something needs to be cleaned and lubricated to keep the shift fork from sticking. I don't see any lubrication points in that area in the service manual.

How do I determine if the motor needs to be lubricated? It's very quiet. I suppose the flywheel bearing might want oil as well. Perhaps I should first try adjusting the drive pulley to see if it can achieve the proper speed with the belt pulley in the center position.

I found this Lube kit on the garage-a-records website. Should I be using that stuff, or is 10w40 motor oil okay?

 

[vinylisfinal]

a great tt, i am a dual fanatic... only issues i ever had was the mechanism needing lubed (underside) the old grease turns into hard rocks.. a good table none the less.. i am the anti snob, i run very good equipment but i love my duals and miracords!!

 

[chadd]

As far as cartridges go, what weight range is considered low mass, and what specs are considered high compliance? The Empire 300ME that's on it now is, according to the manual, 5.3 grams with a dynamic compliance of 17 x 10-6 cm/dyne. The Ortofon OM series seems to be 5 grams across the board, with compliance ranging between 7 and 25 µm/mN between different models. I know what a gram is, but I don't know what the compliance specs mean.

 

[OvenMaster]

Thanks for the replies.

According to my email receipt, forTheGroove.com is a.k.a. All-In-One Electronics of Toronto, and a few AK'ers have posted about getting Dual clutch pads from them during the past year, so hopefully I'll actually get one in the mail.

I don't quite have my head wrapped around how the speed shift fork is actuated by the speed lever yet. If I let the turntable spin with the platter removed and switch the speed lever from 33 to 45, the white plastic shift fork moves very little or not at all. If I tap it gently with my finger, it pops down into position, but more often than not it doesn't move the belt all the on to the lower part of the drive pulley. I suppose a new belt should fix that part of it, but it still seems like something needs to be cleaned and lubricated to keep the shift fork from sticking. I don't see any lubrication points in that area in the service manual.

How do I determine if the motor needs to be lubricated? It's very quiet. I suppose the flywheel bearing might want oil as well. Perhaps I should first try adjusting the drive pulley to see if it can achieve the proper speed with the belt pulley in the center position.

I found this Lube kit on the garage-a-records website. Should I be using that stuff, or is 10w40 motor oil okay?

That white plastic shift fork should move up and/or down by itself with a decisive click or snap. If it's not doing that, then something's stuck or a spring's missing.

You should just lube the motor anyways, I feel... there's no telling when it was last done. One way to tell if it needs a lube job is to spin the motor shaft. If it's hard to turn, it definitely needs oil. The platter bearing should get a few drops of 10W-30. What the motor should get is a subject for debate... some say 10W-30, some say Mobil1, some say 3-in-One, some say mineral oil... but no matter what, Dual recommended lube every two years(!). To get the motor bearings lubed, you will need to take the motor apart entirely.

I also feel you should lube everything before you start adjusting the nut on the motor pulley.

My two cents.

 

[OvenMaster]

http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/tonearmcartridge.html
talks about compliance, among other things. 5 grams for a cart weight is definitely considered "low mass". Some go as high as 12 to 15!

Here are the rules of thumb in the article:

" * A tonearm whose effective mass is rated at 10 grams or below is considered low mass (e.g. early SME’s, Grace 747 etc.). A tonearm whose effective mass is rated between 11 and 25 grams is considered moderate mass (e.g. SME 309, IV, IV-Vi, V, Triplanar, Graham). Arms above 25 grams of mass are high mass in nature (Eminent Technology, Dynavector).

* A phono cartridge whose compliance is rated at 12 x l0ˉ6 or below, is considered low compliance. A cartridge whose compliance is rated between 13 x l0ˉ6 and 25 x l0ˉ6 is considered high to very high. Note: Another way of expressing compliance is um/mN. Here a rating of 5 to 10 is considered very low, 10 to 20 is moderate and above 35 is very high.

* Low mass arms mate well with both moderately high and very high compliance phono cartridges.

* Moderate mass tonearms are good companions for moderate to low compliance cartridges.

* If a low compliance cartridge is used with a low mass tonearm, undesirable resonances can occur in the audible range. Mistracking may also be a problem."

A Dual 522 arm is considered very low mass, so a high compliance cartridge is what you'd need.