Dual 601 Start and Return Issues

[cmnparlance]

I've had a Dual 601 for several years and last had it serviced a few years back. I think it's due for a servicing and I plan to have it professionally looked at soon, but until then I am wondering if there's any easy troubleshooting I can do for the issue I'm having?

As the title says, the problem is with start, stop, and auto return.

1) When the start switch is engaged, the arm lifts and the platter spins, but the arm only makes it about an inch toward the record and then lowers:

2) If the stop switch is engaged, the arm lifts and hovers for a few seconds, then lowers again rather than swing back to its resting place.

3) If a record is allowed to play through to the end, the arm lifts, hovers for a few seconds, then lowers again into the deadwax, similar to when stop is engaged.

In addition to these issues, sometimes when I want to stop a record manually or with cueing, when the arm is lifted, it doesn't want to move back to it's resting place--it simply won't go unless forced, at which point something clicks and it then moves freely. But I don't want to force it like this obviously.

Are these problems potentially fixable without opening the whole thing up from the bottom, removing parts, etc.? Are there things that are easily accessible that I can lube or clean with DeOxit that might make a difference? I'm not too knowledgeable about the technical stuff and I don't want to risk making anything worse. As I said I plan on getting it looked at professionally soon, but that probably won't be for a few weeks at least and I'm wondering what I can do in the interim.

Thanks!

 

[bohhey]

I would just enjoy looking at it on the shelf until you are ready to send it off to be serviced. We don't use deoxit when servicing, and the Dual is removed from the base from the top, not the bottom. The speed selector levers are very prone to breaking and replacements are unavailable. We can make one from the 1249 work, but the look is different. Also, it came from the factory with a bad motor, as did all the other first generation belt drive Duals. On 110 V, one of the eight motor poles fails, causing it to intermittently spin at double speed. Be prepared for a service bill over $300.00 including freight. You have to make your own determination of the 601 is worth the investment.

 

[cmnparlance]

I appreciate the reply; a couple things in response:

When you say you don't use DeOxit when servicing, are you saying you personally don't use/recommend it, or that there are no parts where DeOxit would be used?

As for the motor problem (random double speed), I have read lots about that but it's never been an issue with my particular TT in the 5 or 6 years I've had it. My understanding was that it's common but not universal with the 601, so I figured I just got lucky with one of the good ones.

As for sending it to be serviced--I have a local guy who I am planning to have work on it, and if he's able to fix it the bill won't come to $300. If that were what it took I would probably put it on the shelf to look at permanently.

 

[T68]

I see you're not too keen on getting under the hood on that 601.
But those symptoms are probably a sign that something called "guide" or more commonly known as "steuerpimpel" has deteriorated and is not doing its job any more.
And that is to create friction so that the automatic mechanism can move the tonearm.
It's a small plastic stud sitting on a springed pin.
A common failure on Duals.
Can be found for 10 bucks or even diy:ed.
And easy to replace when you found its location (sits on the bottom of the tonearm assembly and are pushed on by the paddle shaped main lever).

Here's pictures of the little bugger on a 601 I fixed:

Broken:

Replaced:



...but besides the steuerpimpel old Duals also benefits from a good service, clean out old hardened grease from the mechanism and apply proper lubrication sparingly where it should go.

There's an active bunch of Dual folks over att vinyleengine.com where there is also manuals and guides to be found. Free if you register.

 

[bohhey]

I appreciate the reply; a couple things in response:

When you say you don't use DeOxit when servicing, are you saying you personally don't use/recommend it, or that there are no parts where DeOxit would be used?

As for the motor problem (random double speed), I have read lots about that but it's never been an issue with my particular TT in the 5 or 6 years I've had it. My understanding was that it's common but not universal with the 601, so I figured I just got lucky with one of the good ones.

As for sending it to be serviced--I have a local guy who I am planning to have work on it, and if he's able to fix it the bill won't come to $300. If that were what it took I would probably put it on the shelf to look at permanently.

There is no place for DeOxit to be used on this table. DeOxit is great for electronics, but the 601 is mechanical. A high speed light weight machine oil works wonders. You do need silver polish and Q tips to remove tarnish and shine up the various contact points from the cartridge to the RCA female jacks. I have done hundreds of the 601, 1249, 510 and others with the bad motor. Without exception, on 110V, they fail. Dual even had a recall on them in the 80's. The motor will have a tag on it. The bad motor is the SM-840 (black winding covers) and the good one is the SM-860 (and except for the very early ones, the winding covers are burnt orange). You can lift up the table from the base and look inside and see. Maybe you got lucky and yours was taken in for the recall. I have seen a handful that were.

 

[stereofisher]

I see you're not too keen on getting under the hood on that 601.
But those symptoms are probably a sign that something called "guide" or more commonly known as "steuerpimpel" has deteriorated and is not doing its job any more.
And that is to create friction so that the automatic mechanism can move the tonearm.
It's a small plastic stud sitting on a springed pin.
A common failure on Duals.
Can be found for 10 bucks or even diy:ed.
And easy to replace when you found its location (sits on the bottom of the tonearm assembly and are pushed on by the paddle shaped main lever).

Here's pictures of the little bugger on a 601 I fixed:

Broken:
View attachment 1875689
Replaced:

View attachment 1875690

...but besides the steuerpimpel old Duals also benefits from a good service, clean out old hardened grease from the mechanism and apply proper lubrication sparingly where it should go.

There's an active bunch of Dual folks over att vinyleengine.com where there is also manuals and guides to be found. Free if you register.

From what you are describing the steuerpimpel is bad as T68 has posted. Have spent most my time with older Duals. Got a 601 from our local record store to study how they were made. Belt drive. It wasn’t too bad under the hood. Had the speed issue. It was intermittent. Turning it on and off, it went away. Temporarily. As a bench turntable in the shop who cares? The pimple failed. Found it in pieces inside the base. They are easier than my 1219s are to replace. The 601 sounded good. Mine was a guinea pig to teach me how to work on one. Didn’t bother to fix the motor as at the time I had 3 1219s. One on each system. Gave away to an Aker. OP hope you don’t have the speed issue. You could run as is. Like I said it came and went. Sometimes it ran ok for weeks.

Eric

 

[T68]

Yup, the 601 is a solid performing belt drive with a really good tonearm. And no dearing ring disasters to worry about as on 1219 and 1229.

I can miss mine sometimes

 

[stereofisher]

Yup, the 601 is a solid performing belt drive with a really good tonearm. And no dearing ring disasters to worry about as on 1219 and 1229.

I can miss mine sometimes

Looks like you have a Garrard Zero! Much as I love my 1219 Duals, I keep a Zero 92 with a M91ED Shure/Jico HE stylus. Beats the stock M91ED on my BSR 810. The instruments are more distinct on the Zero!

 

[T68]

Looks like you have a Garrard Zero! Much as I love my 1219 Duals, I keep a Zero 92 with a M91ED Shure/Jico HE stylus. Beats the stock M91ED on my BSR 810. The instruments are more distinct on the Zero!

Well spotted sir! That's my Zero 100s. It plays really good.
But right now I got a Lenco L75 hooked up in the system. Another fine idler that is

 

[cmnparlance]

There is no place for DeOxit to be used on this table. DeOxit is great for electronics, but the 601 is mechanical. A high speed light weight machine oil works wonders. You do need silver polish and Q tips to remove tarnish and shine up the various contact points from the cartridge to the RCA female jacks. I have done hundreds of the 601, 1249, 510 and others with the bad motor. Without exception, on 110V, they fail. Dual even had a recall on them in the 80's. The motor will have a tag on it. The bad motor is the SM-840 (black winding covers) and the good one is the SM-860 (and except for the very early ones, the winding covers are burnt orange). You can lift up the table from the base and look inside and see. Maybe you got lucky and yours was taken in for the recall. I have seen a handful that were.

Understood. I had thought maybe there was some place where DeOxit would be appropriate, but I guess not. For now I am going to replace the steuerpimpel and see if that makes a difference.

In terms of the motor--I finally opened up my TT and lo and behold, it has the 860, so it must have been replaced in the '80s, as you suggested. Like I said, I've never had that double-speed issue, in the 5 or 6 years I've had it, thankfully.

 

[cmnparlance]

I see you're not too keen on getting under the hood on that 601.
But those symptoms are probably a sign that something called "guide" or more commonly known as "steuerpimpel" has deteriorated and is not doing its job any more.
And that is to create friction so that the automatic mechanism can move the tonearm.
It's a small plastic stud sitting on a springed pin.
A common failure on Duals.
Can be found for 10 bucks or even diy:ed.
And easy to replace when you found its location (sits on the bottom of the tonearm assembly and are pushed on by the paddle shaped main lever).

Here's pictures of the little bugger on a 601 I fixed:

Broken:
View attachment 1875689
Replaced:

View attachment 1875690

...but besides the steuerpimpel old Duals also benefits from a good service, clean out old hardened grease from the mechanism and apply proper lubrication sparingly where it should go.

There's an active bunch of Dual folks over att vinyleengine.com where there is also manuals and guides to be found. Free if you register.

Thank you! I am planning on replacing the steuerpimpel. Any advice on a DIY one? I've found some forum mentions and YouTube videos talking about a ballpoint pen hack, but I couldn't find detailed instructions anywhere. I cut a few different size piece of pen cartridge myself and opened up the TT, but I couldn't really figure out a good way to get the thing on there, and the cartridge pieces I had were either too wide or too narrow anyway.

 

[cmnparlance]

Yup, the 601 is a solid performing belt drive with a really good tonearm. And no dearing ring disasters to worry about as on 1219 and 1229.

I can miss mine sometimes

I really like the sound and solid feel of the 601, and I never knew how much I liked auto-return until it stopped working!

I have had one issue issue, though--the strobe never quite sits still, no matter how much I adjust the fine speed adjustment. Do you know if that's possibly a motor issue or perhaps a problem with the speed adjustment belt?

 

[stereofisher]

I really like the sound and solid feel of the 601, and I never knew how much I liked auto-return until it stopped working!

I have had one issue issue, though--the strobe never quite sits still, no matter how much I adjust the fine speed adjustment. Do you know if that's possibly a motor issue or perhaps a problem with the speed adjustment belt?[/


How does it sound. It looks like it may be a bad belt that’s slipping which would cause the strobe to vary. You can get a belt from www.vintage-electronics.net. Easy to replace. Yeh, my 601 sounded decent. Good luck!

Eric

 

[Montycat]

Thank you! I am planning on replacing the steuerpimpel. Any advice on a DIY one? I've found some forum mentions and YouTube videos talking about a ballpoint pen hack, but I couldn't find detailed instructions anywhere. I cut a few different size piece of pen cartridge myself and opened up the TT, but I couldn't really figure out a good way to get the thing on there, and the cartridge pieces I had were either too wide or too narrow anyway.

I've tried the pen refill trick but had trouble getting it to fit too. Insulation from 16 gauge (I think) wire was better but silicone tubing is what I use now. I got some from ebay with a 2mm inside diameter. It goes on easily and is easy to cut. Experiment with length a bit but essentially you want it to have just a couple of mm extending past the pin. Real steuerpimpels have closed ends so they simply cap the end so you might have to play with the length a touch.

 

[T68]

See that you got good advice on diy a steuerpimpel.
But here sometimes getting right friction on the main lever can be important. It can be either to sand lightly perpendicular to the path of the steuerpimpel or/and a very light smear with grease. The alvania listed in service manual is hard to find. I used some ol' wheel bearing grease and it seems to work.


Regarding the strobe issue I'm not sure... was a while since I had the 601.
But probably some main things to do/check:
- Is the belt ok? Maybe time for replacement.
- Clean the motor pulley and the subplatter on which the belt runs with isopropanol
- Clean and relubricate the motor bearings (top one is hard to reach but carefully use a syringe to reach with a drop of oil.
- Clean and relubricate the platter bearing (I used chainsaw oil on mine)

But also: strobes are not always reliable. How does it sound? Or check also with a smartphone rpm app.

Good luck!

 

[Champco]

I would just enjoy looking at it on the shelf until you are ready to send it off to be serviced. We don't use deoxit when servicing, and the Dual is removed from the base from the top, not the bottom. The speed selector levers are very prone to breaking and replacements are unavailable. We can make one from the 1249 work, but the look is different. Also, it came from the factory with a bad motor, as did all the other first generation belt drive Duals. On 110 V, one of the eight motor poles fails, causing it to intermittently spin at double speed. Be prepared for a service bill over $300.00 including freight. You have to make your own determination of the 601 is worth the investment.

Bill good to see you out here. Hope all is well. My 601 you repaired a couple years ago is still doing it's job well. best money I have spent in years. I seriously have put over a thousand hours on it, probably close to 2 thousand, when I look at my collection and know how many times I have played each the last two years. .

 

[bohhey]

Bill good to see you out here. Hope all is well. My 601 you repaired a couple years ago is still doing it's job well. best money I have spent in years. I seriously have put over a thousand hours on it, probably close to 2 thousand, when I look at my collection and know how many times I have played each the last two years. .

I use the same amp and pre-amp at work and they are on all day, every day. Still flawless. They drive a pair of Rectlinear 3 Tall Boys.

 

[Champco]

I use the same amp and pre-amp at work and they are on all day, every day. Still flawless. They drive a pair of Rectlinear 3 Tall Boys.

It's interesting as I was looking to buy a Pre when I saw yours. Now I have two of them and also two Citation 12's. The 11 I use. I bought all necessary caps but have not installed em as i am a if it aint broke dont fix it guy. The second 11 is still on a shelf untested. One 12 has been recapped. The second is fighting fuses. Looking at rebuilding the board completely when I find time. The PL runs with the 12 on two separate Pre outs, and speaker systems. Love the 11

 

[dapbmw]

I've had a Dual 601 for several years and last had it serviced a few years back. I think it's due for a servicing and I plan to have it professionally looked at soon, but until then I am wondering if there's any easy troubleshooting I can do for the issue I'm having?

As the title says, the problem is with start, stop, and auto return.

1) When the start switch is engaged, the arm lifts and the platter spins, but the arm only makes it about an inch toward the record and then lowers:

2) If the stop switch is engaged, the arm lifts and hovers for a few seconds, then lowers again rather than swing back to its resting place.

3) If a record is allowed to play through to the end, the arm lifts, hovers for a few seconds, then lowers again into the deadwax, similar to when stop is engaged.

In addition to these issues, sometimes when I want to stop a record manually or with cueing, when the arm is lifted, it doesn't want to move back to it's resting place--it simply won't go unless forced, at which point something clicks and it then moves freely. But I don't want to force it like this obviously.

Are these problems potentially fixable without opening the whole thing up from the bottom, removing parts, etc.? Are there things that are easily accessible that I can lube or clean with DeOxit that might make a difference? I'm not too knowledgeable about the technical stuff and I don't want to risk making anything worse. As I said I plan on getting it looked at professionally soon, but that probably won't be for a few weeks at least and I'm wondering what I can do in the interim.

Thanks!

Deoxit for mechanical issues is a big no no omg