Dual 704 or 1246

[Swells]

I am curious which is a better turntable to purchase. Both are for sale locally for roughly the same price. I do know the 1246 ($150) is with its original owner, has manuals, and has been serviced by Bill at “Fix My Dual”. The 704 was serviced at some point by the owner and is $200. Thanks!

 

[Legrace]

The 704 IMO is the more desirable model.

 

[Swells]

A little more information on the provided carts: The 704 has a Shure V-15 Type iii while the 1246 comes with a Stanton 500 Gold. I think this tips things in favor of the 704?

 

[bohhey]

The V-15 Type III is worth 3/4th of the price any day of the week. Both pretty reliable units. The speed can get wonky on the 704, but usually some Deoxit sprayed into the pitch control takes care of that.

 

[Swells]

@bohhey, I figured you would quickly endorse the 1246 that you serviced! I have no fear of a can of deoxit as it seems like every TT I have bought has had pitch control wonkiness that some D100 has not been able to cure. I do like the repeat function on the 1246 and was looking for a fully automatic, but the 704 with V-15 iii is pretty attractive and seemingly less moving parts to worry about. Should I not be worried about the VTA control breaking? I read that if that does go, and because it is plastic it is vulnerable, the machine goes with it. Are those difficult fixes?

 

[bohhey]

@bohhey, I figured you would quickly endorse the 1246 that you serviced! I have no fear of a can of deoxit as it seems like every TT I have bought has had pitch control wonkiness that some D100 has not been able to cure. I do like the repeat function on the 1246 and was looking for a fully automatic, but the 704 with V-15 iii is pretty attractive and seemingly less moving parts to worry about. Should I not be worried about the VTA control breaking? I read that if that does go, and because it is plastic it is vulnerable, the machine goes with it. Are those difficult fixes?

In both the 704 and the 721, the VTA can be fussy. Most of the moving parts are plastic, and can easily fail of moved before the old grease is removed. Once cleaned and oiled, they work pretty well. I'm not endorsing the 1246 over the 704, but I have found them to be pretty dependable. You could always move the V-15 over to the 1246 - many 1246's sold in Europe came with the V-15 III as standard equipment.

 

[bohhey]

In both the 704 and the 721, the VTA can be fussy. Most of the moving parts are plastic, and can easily fail of moved before the old grease is removed. Once cleaned and oiled, they work pretty well. I'm not endorsing the 1246 over the 704, but I have found them to be pretty dependable. You could always move the V-15 over to the 1246 - many 1246's sold in Europe came with the V-15 III as standard equipment.

oh - I didn't answer your question - to service the VTA, you need to disassemble and remove the tonearm. There is an angled slot that guides the tonearm movement that breaks at one end, but that can usually be fixed with epoxy. There are other small plastic parts and springs that you have to be on the lookout for. Specifically a plastic gear wheel - that can strip, and then you are dead in your tracks.

 

[Swells]

oh - I didn't answer your question - to service the VTA, you need to disassemble and remove the tonearm. There is an angled slot that guides the tonearm movement that breaks at one end, but that can usually be fixed with epoxy. There are other small plastic parts and springs that you have to be on the lookout for. Specifically a plastic gear wheel - that can strip, and then you are dead in your tracks.

Thanks for all the info. As for the V-15, that cart comes with the 704 while the 1246 has the Stanton 500 Gold. No chance to put the Shure on the 1246 unless I buy both which won’t happen due to space, $, and a woman in my life. If the Shure was on the 1246 that you serviced and is $50 cheaper, I’d grab it without hesitation. Really torn.

 

[lini]

Swells: Depends on what you'd think you'd enjoy more. I.e., the 704 is the more high-class hifi model and sports arm height adjustment, but on the other hand as a direct-drive requires quite a bit of electronics. Whereas the 1246 offers fully-automatic operation (and even stacker functionality for those, who enjoy that) - and while it isn't quite as good in terms of W&F as well as SNR, it's an almost entirely (electro-)mechanical design with a very robust synchronous motor, which isn't difficult to service. Its usual problems: The occasional disintegrated Steuerpimpel, the nifty, mechanical pitch control suffering from a stuck conical spreader piece, if used too rarely - and if bohhey hasn't already swapped these, you might sooner or later need new rubber dampers for the motor mounts to prevent motor noise from being transmitted.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[stereofisher]

That V15 is a nice cart. Though married to Shure M55 and M91EDs I got a V15 off a Garrard Zero 100. No one wanted that poor Zero. Paid $22.23 with that V15. Fixed the Zero. Took the V15 off it as it was not the right cart for it. Got an extra sled for my 1219s (3). It’s more distinctive than my other Shures. You can really hear the all the music and vocals with them. Like the OP said, the 1246 with a V15 would be nice. And yeah, a buck fifty gets a V15. Got lucky this time. Good luck. My preference would be the 1246. Mechanical not electrical.

 

[Swells]

That V15 is a nice cart. Though married to Shure M55 and M91EDs I got a V15 off a Garrard Zero 100. No one wanted that poor Zero. Paid $22.23 with that V15. Fixed the Zero. Took the V15 off it as it was not the right cart for it. Got an extra sled for my 1219s (3). It’s more distinctive than my other Shures. You can really hear the all the music and vocals with them. Like the OP said, the 1246 with a V15 would be nice. And yeah, a buck fifty gets a V15. Got lucky this time. Good luck. My preference would be the 1246. Mechanical not electrical.

Yeah, would be a quick no brainer for me if the V15 was on the 1246 but it's on the 704. I do like the auto/repeat function of the 1246 but the V15 on the 704 is a big draw...I have an Empire 999 TE/X around the house and wonder what that would sound like on the 1246. Better than the Stanton 500 Gold that the 1246 comes with?

 

[Calypte]

I once had a 704. I enjoyed it greatly back in the day. Eventually it was retired to a closet. When I tried to use it again, it had developed "cogging," or continuously unstable speed, which was easily audible. I often wondered if it was repairable. I essentially gave it away when we were preparing to move in 2012.

 

[stereofisher]

Yeah, would be a quick no brainer for me if the V15 was on the 1246 but it's on the 704. I do like the auto/repeat function of the 1246 but the V15 on the 704 is a big draw...I have an Empire 999 TE/X around the house and wonder what that would sound like on the 1246. Better than the Stanton 500 Gold that the 1246 comes with?

Good question on those carts. Can’t help you there. The auto shut is nice. It has always drawn me back to Duals. And that 1246 has been gone through. Once done they last a long time.

 

[Swells]

Hi all. I appreciate all of your responses and the time it took to share your opinions/knowledge. I wanted to close the loop by letting you know I picked up the 1246 over the 704. I understand the 704 is more "hi-fi" and has some really desirable features (VTA), not to mention the Shure V15 type iii, but the 1246 had a lot going for it. The 1246 has been serviced by Bill at "Fix My Dual" in the not so distant past, I bought it from the original owner who had all accessories including the original manuals and catalogs, and it was meticulous. Anyway, hopefully the 704 isn't available for too much longer or I may have to double my new Dual collection...

Cheers.

 

[lini]

Swells: Well, why not? Shall mean, unless one suffers from a lack of space or really can't afford it, a second, nice turntable can hardly harm - and the more Dual models with tonearms for TK24 carriers one has, the more sense a neat little collection of carts pre-mounted on TK24 carriers to swap between these tables would make...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[Swells]

Vielen dank @lini . Got the 1246 hooked up last night and everything works splendidly. Super smooth. Unfortunately the stylus looked a little bottomed out and the sound seemed a little muddy to my not so picky ears. Looking now for a replacement stylus for the Stanton 500 cart. Thoughts? Seem to be lots of aftermarket options out there.

 

[stereofisher]

Vielen dank @lini . Got the 1246 hooked up last night and everything works splendidly. Super smooth. Unfortunately the stylus looked a little bottomed out and the sound seemed a little muddy to my not so picky ears. Looking now for a replacement stylus for the Stanton 500 cart. Thoughts? Seem to be lots of aftermarket options out there.

Swells: Well, why not? Shall mean, unless one suffers from a lack of space or really can't afford it, a second, nice turntable can hardly harm - and the more Dual models with tonearms for TK24 carriers one has, the more sense a neat little collection of carts pre-mounted on TK24 carriers to swap between these tables would make...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

Good idea. I have multiple 1219’s. Good an extra sled for the V15. Have M91s and M55s on the others. Great to have a spare! OP, you may want to check the tracking on the 1246. It my be set too heavy. Worked on one. Sounded good when done.

 

[Swells]

Good idea. I have multiple 1219’s. Good an extra sled for the V15. Have M91s and M55s on the others. Great to have a spare! OP, you may want to check the tracking on the 1246. It my be set too heavy. Worked on one. Sounded good when done.

It's currently set at 2g while the stylus calls for 2-5. I did actually decrease it to 1.75 but did not notice an appreciable difference in the much needed highs and felt like the cart was sitting too light on the record. When setting down the stylus on the record, there is a miniscule to no spacing between the cart and vinyl. Seems the suspension has sadly given up. Makes me nervous. Thinking of grabbing one of these to swap out the Stanton stylus:
https://www.turntableneedles.com/DA...-15-Cartridges--our-Needle-604-DE_p_1184.html
On the lighter side of tracking, Japanese sourced.

 

[stereofisher]

It's currently set at 2g while the stylus calls for 2-5. I did actually decrease it to 1.75 but did not notice an appreciable difference in the much needed highs and felt like the cart was sitting too light on the record. When setting down the stylus on the record, there is a miniscule to no spacing between the cart and vinyl. Seems the suspension has sadly given up. Makes me nervous. Thinking of grabbing one of these to swap out the Stanton stylus:
https://www.turntableneedles.com/DA...-15-Cartridges--our-Needle-604-DE_p_1184.html
On the lighter side of tracking, Japanese sourced.

Had a NOS Shure M55 cart did that. It collapsed. Rubbed against the record. That got replaced with a JICO HE.

 

[62vauxhall]

Funnily, I use a Stanton 500 variant called a MK V with a D5 stylus tracking at 3 grams for a lot of "regular" listening. But a Shure V15 III when.making open reel recordings.

I like the bass produced by the Stanton over the Shure but the tape recording/playback process emphasizes it. So I call up the Shure when that duty needs doing.

I've been betwixt and between Shure's and Stanton's since 1973. I like and use them both but find a Stanton 500 more usefull in that there are multiple styli shapes and sizes for it. Moreso than for a Shure V15.

Plus I perceive it as having a "bigger" sound that I find agreeable. Except when I'm tape recording.