• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Dual CS-5000 Tonearm balance

T

Tony Dee

Member
I initially posted incorrect info. Here's the corrected post which states that the cartridge, stylus, and headshell are too light to allow tonearm balancing.
I received a Dual CS-5000 for some work I did for someone. I replaced the RCA jacks. While setting it up I was unable to balance the tonearm.
With 0 grams showing on the dial and the weight moved all the way toward the pivot, the tonearm still hangs high in the air. I have to add 0.5g on the weight dial to balance the tonearm.
I think it has the original Ortofon cartridge. Any thoughts on why I can't get it to balance?

Thanks,Dual CS-5000 toneare balance.jpg
 
Last edited:
Register to hide this ad
I don’t think that's the stock headshell. Sounds like whatever it is it's too heavy, and it's likely not the Ortofon.
 
I haven't pulled the stylus to check cartridge markings, but the stylus is an Ortofon DN-185E. That fits the Ortofon OM-20 which I understand comes with this turntable. I may have all that wrong. I've just been piecing info together that I found in the User manual, Service manual, and web searches.
 
Tony Dee said:
I haven't pulled the stylus to check cartridge markings, but the stylus is an Ortofon DN-185E. That fits the Ortofon OM-20 which I understand comes with this turntable. I may have all that wrong. I've just been piecing info together that I found in the User manual, Service manual, and web searches.
Click to expand...
The cartridge is not a bad choice for the arm, the om carts are featherweights. I think you're right that they were what came with the table.

The headshell itself is seemingly too heavy. It doesn't match the headshells in the literature online. My guess is it's not the right one.
 
Opps, I incorrectly stated the problem. The problem is the cartridge w/stylus and headshell are too light. I have to correct my initial posting.
With 0 grams showing on the dial and the weight moved all the way toward the pivot, the tonearm still hangs high in the air. I have to add 0.5g on the weight dial to balance the tonearm.
There is another headshell in the box. It looks heavier than the one employed right now. I guess that might solve the problem, but I don't think a heavier headshell is better.
 

Attachments

  • Dual Headshells.jpg
    Dual Headshells.jpg
    138.8 KB · Views: 22
Tony Dee said:
I think it has the original Ortofon cartridge. Any thoughts on why I can't get it to balance?
Click to expand...
(I thought your initial description was off .......!)

These cartridges have a removeable brass weight on top.
With the weight removed, total weight is <3g, which is below Dual min cartridge weight. Plus if your headshell is lighter than OEM 4g, you could struggle to balance (let alone set VTF).
 
Tony Dee said:
That's it. The weight is missing in this unit.
Click to expand...
damn it.

Not a deal breaker, just need weight from somewhere else. Not sure how the prior owner was running this ....
Ortofon brass weight ~2.5g. There is a chance that the existing cartridge as is + other headshell will give you enough weight. I am going to guess no.
You might want to leave it all as is & just add blu tack w/penny on top of headshell to troubleshoot. This should get you close & should allow (short-term) playback.
 
The other headshell has a movable piece of plastic and a spring. I understand all that is for the Vert Tracking Angle. That's an area I haven't explored before. What do you think about going that route as opposed to just adding the additional needed weight via the weight dial? I can measure the actual weight with a scale.
 
Tony Dee said:
What do you think about going that route ...
Click to expand...
meh.
I like OEM, but this headshell w/VTA spring & dial appears a bit gimmicky. There are a number of threads here that discuss details, with some/most? swapping out this part....
VTA is not applicable to our current problem.
The largest benefit I currently see with the OEM shell is it may be heavier....... but probably not enough to avoid some blu tack option.
I would get it balanced, apply your tracking force & see what you got.


fyi - I am not a Dual guy. No significant experience w/Dual. See signature.
Let's see if we can get some Dual/CS-5000 owner input!
 
Tony Dee said:
It looks heavier than the one employed right now.
Click to expand...

Yup, because the headshell variant in your first pic looks like the grey-metallic headshell version for the non-DeLuxe version of the 505-2 with the satin-metallic (or was it polar-metallic?) plinth variant. So, while that would physically fit, it's not intended for the CS 5000 at all.

Well, and there also used to be a non-VTA-correction headshell variant for the CS 5000 - which you can see in the first two pics over there: https://www.hifinews.com/content/dual-cs-5000-turntable-page-2 In my view that headshell variant is really ugly, though - so a nicer looking alternative would be the headshell for the Golden 1 as well as for the CS 750 and 750-1 (and their silblings like the Golden 11 and the Golden and Silver Stone). Mind you, though, that this headshell version was later on also used for some of the Fehrenbacher-made Thorens models - however, the later versions of these models didn't sport the plug/connector inserts at the front end of the tonearm anymore (in favour of longer tonearm cables with cartridge clips), so that the matching headshell variant for these consequently also doesn't sport the matching jack/connector insert anymore. So this later headshell variant wouldn't help you, unless you'd retrofit the matching jack/connector insert.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
 
I didn't realize the headshell wasn't the one that came with the turntable. It looks pretty much like the one illustrated in the user manual, but not exactly. I don't see an exact replacement available on eBay at this time.

The hi-fi news article said
One final quirk to note is that the deck monitors its speed by measuring the rotation of the motor and not the platter.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure of that. This unit has a sensor under the platter. What would its job be if not for monitoring the platter speed?
 

Attachments

  • Dual CS-5000 platter sensor.jpg
    Dual CS-5000 platter sensor.jpg
    118.7 KB · Views: 4
Tony Dee said:
(...) I'm not sure of that. This unit has a sensor under the platter. What would its job be if not for monitoring the platter speed?
Click to expand...

As far as I'm aware, the CS 5000 and the Golden 1 would check the platter speed only once per revolution - whereas in case of the CS 750 and its siblings the platter had a ring with 100 teeth on the inside, so that the platter speed could be much more continuously monitored (and the motor be controlled accordingly). Hence one could say, that the CS 750 and its siblings are more similar to the Braun PS 550 & PS 550 S as well as Philips' DirectControl belt-drive models in terms of actual platter speed sensing and platter-speed-based motor control than the CS 5000 and Golden 1.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
 
The auto arm lift is failsafe with power down. It won’t lower the arm until the speed is correct. To check VTF I use a digital scale as follows:
Remove mat
Slip belt off drive pulley
Move tone arm between rest and platter w/ lift lever down
Manually rotate platter at constant speed to trick sensor and lower arm.
Without moving the platter check VTF

A word of caution, DO NOT TOUCH THE INNER SURFACE OF THE PLATTER DRIVE RING. The timing mark is delicate and critical to preventing partsunititis and doorstop syndrome.

This is the correct VTA headshell with my Signet TK7e and sparely used NOS AT stylus
IMG_5281.jpegIMG_5278.jpegIMG_5275.jpeg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom