Pio1980
AK Member
You, SE vs P/P.
el34 vs 6ca7
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Pio1980
AK Member
Supposed to be sim to 6CA7, costlier.
No personal experience.
Lavane
Lunatic Member
I found the KT-77's wre close to the 6CA7's. The 6CA7's had just a bit better bottom end than the 77's. I do like the 77's also though.
AikiAudio
Active Member
I agree! It is quite hard to tell the differences between all theses tubes.
I have the KT 77 from Gold Lion, EL 34 from Mullard, 6CA7 from electro harmonix and just got four more 6CA7 from a Chinese brand called Shu Guang.
They all sound really good. I don't know how to put in words but the KT 77 seems more "neutral". The Mullards sound very good and the 6CA7 from EL also sound great. Can't tell the difference between those.
The Shu Guang 6CA7 sounds "louder" with more bass. I am not sure if they will change, since they are not broken in yet and have only one day in my system. They do look very pretty! Did anyone have ever tried those?
Lavane
Lunatic Member
Neutral is a good description of the KT-77. I found them fairly well ballanced from top to bottom. Nothing stands out like more bass or brighter top end or a more pronounced midrange. I liked them, but prefer that extra bit of punch in the low end I get from the EH-6CA7's.
AikiAudio
Active Member
That sounds like what I am getting from these 6CA7.
Pio1980
AK Member
Beam tetrode. Two grid spirals, control and screen.
I have been rolling in some 12ax7s in the line stage and settled on Telefunkens. They are very smooth and have great detail and soundstage, but the system suddenly sounded ‘tubier’. Word?
The EH 6CA7s sound more neutral and tamed the flabby low end I got with the Chinese EL34s.
It is all so system dependent.
I’ve knocked the big bottles in the past for being bright and a bit harsh. Well, never mind. Some have asserted that their low end was deeper and tighter than many 34s but I didn’t agree. Well, now I hear it. Turns out that the preamp tubes were limiting my ability to hear these tubes at their best.
Tom Bombadil
AK Member
In my SE amps, I find the GL KT77 and JJ KT77 to produce a very clean, open sound with neutral highs and a clean, well-defined but not particularly deep or strong bass. I like them a lot, with the GL being a bit more open than the JJ. Very nice, big soundstage.
I have a couple of quads of Sylvania Fat Boy 6CA7. A bit warmer sound than the KT77, with a bit more bass without quite as much definition and a bit less high frequency detail. I do mean just a "bit" more of all of these. I like these a lot when listening to the blues and rock & roll. And to jazz trios with female vocals, like Holly Cole. Just a little more "glow" on the vocals.
Have a set of EH 6CA7. These have a pronounced extra warmth on mid-bass, like say 60Hz to 120Hz. Smaller soundstage. Like listening in a nightclub with some bass resonance. More like a "classic" tubey sound. I'm not a fan and I rarely use them. I purchased them when I read a couple of opinions stating they sounded like the old Fat Boy 6CA7. This has not been my experience.
I wish I had some vintage EL34 for comparisons.
I have a couple of quads of Sylvania Fat Boy 6CA7. A bit warmer sound than the KT77, with a bit more bass without quite as much definition and a bit less high frequency detail. I do mean just a "bit" more of all of these. I like these a lot when listening to the blues and rock & roll. And to jazz trios with female vocals, like Holly Cole. Just a little more "glow" on the vocals.
Have a set of EH 6CA7. These have a pronounced extra warmth on mid-bass, like say 60Hz to 120Hz. Smaller soundstage. Like listening in a nightclub with some bass resonance. More like a "classic" tubey sound. I'm not a fan and I rarely use them. I purchased them when I read a couple of opinions stating they sounded like the old Fat Boy 6CA7. This has not been my experience.
I wish I had some vintage EL34 for comparisons.
And some of it will be which tube type the amp was tuned for. My amp uses Schade feedback that was tuned for those JJ EL34's and changing the value of that resistor slightly for the "Fat bottles", could easily change which tube sounds better in my amp. I also found the 6CA7 run a little hotter bias than the EL34 as a drop in replacement, and given my SE amp runs the tubes pretty hard, having the EL34 at 96% and the 6CA7 at 98% might be the difference I hear. Changing the cathode resistor so the tubes run cooler or if it was a PP amp, would likely change things as well.
And as Blackdog61 said the preamp, as well as the source, your speakers, the output transformers, the room, the phono cartridge and phono stage etc. will change all this too.
I think it's useful to post the *differences* people hear, but as far as which is "best", that is too dependent on so many other variables, as well as personal taste.
There is no such thing as ‘best’. I’m running a Dynaco ST-70 with small 2-way Canton monitors in a small room. Grado cart on an AR into an EAR clone phono stage and modified PAS for the line stage.
Honestly, I ran Teles in the line stage for years but pulled them maybe two years to ‘save’ them and I thought the Raytheons sounded good. Might have used another cart at the time, or maybe it was an EL84 amp.
Anyway, I’m set. Once you get to a certain level in this hobby, small changes begin to matter more and more.
Honestly, I ran Teles in the line stage for years but pulled them maybe two years to ‘save’ them and I thought the Raytheons sounded good. Might have used another cart at the time, or maybe it was an EL84 amp.
Anyway, I’m set. Once you get to a certain level in this hobby, small changes begin to matter more and more.
Might be expensive gear too. I used to frequent a high end shop which carried all the top stuff: Mark Levinson, Acoustic Research, Linn.....
I usually left that place thinking it sounded like a lot of expensive gear that didn’t quite create the illusion of listening to live music. I’ve heard very, very few high end systems that do that as well as vintage tube gear.
I usually left that place thinking it sounded like a lot of expensive gear that didn’t quite create the illusion of listening to live music. I’ve heard very, very few high end systems that do that as well as vintage tube gear.
I love the sound of my vintage gear but at the various hifi shows around the US (Axpona, RMAF, CAF, etc.) I've heard lots of new gear/systems that ultimately put my system(s) to shame. You really need to go to one of these shows (once they start up again - thanks pandemic) and hear for yourself. Sure, some rooms sound pretty bad but many sound extremely good. Again, I love my vintage gear, most of which I've re-built. But newer gear and speakers often trounce my gear when it comes to dynamics, upper end detail/air and so forth. Of course, that all comes at a price. The really good, natural sounding systems tend to come in north of at least $25K !
differences between power tubes will also depend on how much GNFB is in the amp. If its a low FDBK design, then you are likely to hear greater differences between tubes. With high GNFB, differences become much smaller or nearly impossible to repeatedly pick out. May also want to test a few variants of the first input tube or tubes. They can have a big effect on SQ as well.