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Electro-Voice 12TRXB or 15TRXB based on Cabinets?

Retrovert said:
Ummm, before you do that, why not pick up a pair of empty Bozak B-302 cabinets and do an experiment?
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A good idea, Retro, and very thoughtful of you. I immediately googled the B-302, and though I didn't find dimensions, the photos suggest it's just too big for my current quarters. They look about the size of my JBL L-200s, which I couldn't move in because of their size. Must the cabinets be that large to suit the 12-TRXBs?

I don't have a music room, and my living room mustn't be dominated by gear because... well, it's for living. I've alway had big speakers, from various massive JBLs, to big Martin Logans, to Quad 63s with two subs, and really miss that all-enveloping sound. I'm not getting nearly the same pleasure from my current speakers, and it's not the sources or electronics, they're capable of far more. I agree with you about infinite baffle so we share the same head-space — but not the same space-space.

I have 2 full-range speakers (Vandersteen 2C and NHT 2.9) which do fit the room, but they're only OK. I've been playing with satellites and stereo subs — LS3/5A-type British monitors (KEF Ref 101), and the Infinity Modulus 2-ways with ribbon tweet, which caused much excitement when released. It's quite amazing what these smaller systems can do, with stunning imaging and clean bass down to 26Hz — it's what they can't do that troubles me.

But you may have convinced me to keep the EVs. My major doubt was how good they'd be, and some people are saying very good.

HTHMAN said:
Years ago I had a pair on 12TRXb's that I built a ported enclosure according to their plans.
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Thanks HTHMAN — another accolade for the EVs and a cabinet that will fit my space. And most importantly, you've actually owned them so your opinion is not hypothetical. I've only had time to skim the plans you sent, not to study them; there seem to be different options, and I may PM you to discuss, if that's OK.

Thanks to all of you! You rushed to my aid like an Audio SWAT team!
 
The 12" EV drivers of that era want approximately 5 cubic feet at a minimum. Anything smaller and it limits their bass response, which squeezes the midrange performance and makes it too bright/forward. However, if you can find a pair of EV Aristocrat cabinets, those would work. The folded horn design was licensed from Paul Klipsch. But they absolutely require a solid corner of a room to make proper bass. I don't like the TRX versions with the T-35 horn tweeter. I find those tweeters spitty, hurtful and limited in their response. So, I stick with the SP12 or SP15 versions and use my own tweeter choice.

Biggles
 
The B-302 is a 5 cu ft cabinet, roughly 24 W x 20 D x 31 H. The Electro-Voice drivers need that much space. Infinite baffle requires more space than do ported cabinets or horns. I don't have the space for the B-302 and instead have the bookshelf version which does not go as low, down to maybe 55 Hz instead of 40 to 45 Hz for the B-302.

Ahhh, just noticed Biggles had posted before I finished this. Yes, as always he's spot on with the size and cabinet suggestions.

I don't like horns, personal preference, but if one like horns that cabinet would work. Many do not like non-linear response of the T-35 at the high end. This was a common issue with older tweeters and one we've commented upon for Bozaks many times.

Another cabinet option is the Karlson. I have a pair of those, original Karlson flatpacks. While the low-end response is deep and rich, it has peculiar resonance spikes. I've elsewhere on AK posted some charts which you can find. Many do not like them, many do. I like them, you might as well. The cabinets are smaller than the infinite baffle.
 
One more thought.

If you're willing to give up the low end a smaller cabinet can work. Audio is a compromise, and if your physical space will not accept a larger cabinet use what you can fit.
 
Retrovert said:
One more thought.

If you're willing to give up the low end a smaller cabinet can work. Audio is a compromise, and if your physical space will not accept a larger cabinet use what you can fit.
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Agreed. It'd have to be some type of cabinet, at least 2 cubic feet. 3 would be better. I absolutely LOVE the flavor of the SP12's and 15's. Make darned sure you use a 1" to 2" thick cotton upholstery batting vs fiberglass. The 2" thick batting varies in thickness, down to 1" in some places. Efficient, lush midrange performance that will melt your skull for the cost of approximately a watt of power. A cost effective love affair is within reach.

Biggles
 
drbiggles said:
Make darned sure you use a 1" to 2" thick cotton upholstery batting vs fiberglass. The 2" thick batting varies in thickness, down to 1" in some places.
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I cannot stress how accurate this advice is. We've learned from Bozaks that the cotton batting is superior to fiberglass and the thick lining is the way to go.

drbiggles said:
Efficient, lush midrange performance that will melt your skull for the cost of approximately a watt of power. A cost effective love affair is within reach.
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How many times a day does one get to hear that?
 
bimasta said:
Thanks HTHMAN — another accolade for the EVs and a cabinet that will fit my space. And most importantly, you've actually owned them so your opinion is not hypothetical. I've only had time to skim the plans you sent, not to study them; there seem to be different options, and I may PM you to discuss, if that's OK.
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Feel free to PM if you want. Those plans are a little confusing at first glance, but once you know the volume of the cabinet you have, you can construct a proper port. The graphs at the end make it pretty simple once you figure out what they are talking about. I made a rectangular port since it is simple to determine the area of the port to conform with length and rear clearance.

BTW, those were outstanding speakers IMO and I wish I had kept them.
 
Couple of thoughts. As Drbiggles states above, 12trxbs loaded inside EV Aristocrat cabinets are a very satisfactory solution. I have done this, and they remain among my favorites because they just sound so natural and musical. And they don't require much room, just corners.

I'm wondering how those 12trxbs would sound installed in open baffles? I'm guessing pretty damn good. This opens up a whole new option suite for you. OBs are great fun to experiment with and are hard to really screw up.
 
macyjrm said:
I'm wondering how those 12trxbs would sound installed in open baffles? I'm guessing pretty damn good. This opens up a whole new option suite for you. OBs are great fun to experiment with and are hard to really screw up.
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Retrovert said:
Open baffles require far more area than do the B-302 cabinets.
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I seriously considered open baffles, I like the "openness", and they're so easy to try, just cut a hole, and add two legs. Yes, they're huge, but almost flat, just the depth of the driver and the legs (which could fold up), so it could be against the wall, less obtrusive.

But it must be out in the room at least a meter for sonic reasons, and their hugeness would be all too obvious. But it can be against the wall when not in use or for low-level background music, and only move them out for serious deep listening. But that's very inconvenient, not having to move them but having to keep the path clear, can't put anything in the way. And how heavy are they, they'll need bracing to prevent panel resonances, heavy enough to need castors, does that compromise rigidity?

And two 3' X 4' panels are huge even against the wall — but paintings are that big — but paintings are pretty — so the speakers must be pretty... etc...

I went through all these contradictory analyses, and you see they're all logical. You guys are trying to help me but I can't seem to make a decision. Sorry. Must be frustrating for you.
 
My first real stereo speakers were EV SP12B's in EV spec enclosures (approx 5 cu ft) that my Dad helped me build. Later I added T35 horn tweeters , and then 8HD horns and 1823m mids as $$ allowed. I loved those speakers. Eventually I built a pair of 9.25 cu ft enclosures for EV SP12Cs using 1823ms with 8HD horns andT35 tweeters. Wish I still had them although my younger son does !!
 
RSMRecording said:
I have a pair of vintage well built speaker cabinets that were made to close specs of a similar Altec cabinet. Currently, the cabinets are loaded with a Full-range Coaxial 15" type Stromberg-Carlson speakers from the early 1960's (chrome frames, red cones). Unfortunately, I blew one of tweeters and decided I want to get a pair of Electro-Voice full-range vintage speakers for the cabinets. I want to choose between the model 12TRXB or 15TRXB, or similar designs by other manufactures.

Cabinets volume is about 4.3 Cu.Ft and it is a bass reflex design.

Pros and Cons

Electro-Voice 12TRXB ?

Electro-Voice 15TRXB ?

Thanks for the help and advise
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FWIW, my old thread still has the pics attached... HTH...

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index....ed-cap-and-or-crossover-advice-please.776619/
 
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