Electro-Voice Regency Cabinets

[mitchalee]

INTRO: I have a set of Cornwall I, a pair of 3-way Bozak about the same size, and some Electro-Voice Regencies. The Klipsch and Bozak are both restored with original drivers and I have two EV TRX15 coax drivers for the Regency cabinets.

Here's the THING: One of the Regency already has a TRX15. The other has 3 nice EV drivers and honestly, it sounds better to me. But not as nice as the Cornwall.

Well, just because it is so easy, I am going to begin by adding TRX15 coax to both Regency. And enjoy them a while. If I like them enough, then that will be the end of it.

BUT if I tire of their sound, I am gradually becoming a bit obcessed with putting old style 15" K33 Woofers and super modern horn mids and tweets in the Regency. I have some fantasticly efficient horn drivers, like over 100 db. Probably match the K33 woofer OK. And the whole box would then be able to get really loud and, probably, lovely with just a few class A tube watts OR move mountains with a new clean Sabaj or Fosi mono block V3 class D.

Generally speaking I only restore classic, older loudspeakers, but since the Regency usually came with no drivers, I do not feel too guilty about my lecherous intentions. But part of the incentive is that I really wonder how the Regency enclosure will compare to Cornwall enclosure using similar driver. Part of me is even tempted to go whole hog and use the exact drivers that would have come in a Cornwall in about 1970.

Anyone already tried this? Any fun advice? Anything I should watch out for in adapting the crossover?

I have only done this sort of thing twice before with a big no name Asian cabinet that originally came with Warfedale drivers which I put in a better Warfedale cabinet. Then I put superdooper modern drivers in the no-name cabinet. But no matter how much I fooled around, it lacked magic. Don't get me wrong; it sounded good. Very good. But not great! The other time was another big no-name cabinet from Hong Kong. It also came with a Warfedale driver which I had other uses for. So I added a classic coaxial University 6201. Now this made vocals sound in the room and bass that seemed sculptural. So it was very enjoyable. But, again, not really superb, just very good.

We shall see. I'll keep you all posed if I go whole hog and turn both Regency into very eficient 3-way systems.

Cheers!
Mitch

 

[drbiggles]

Hmmm, well the Regency is a folded horn design cabinet and your EV driver is designed for that type of design. The Cornwall is an acoustic suspension design and it's woofer is designed to work in that type of cabinet. To get optimum results, you'd want to use a woofer designed for the cabinet you've got.

Biggles

 

[mitchalee]

Hmmm, well the Regency is a folded horn design cabinet and your EV driver is designed for that type of design. The Cornwall is an acoustic suspension design and it's woofer is designed to work in that type of cabinet. To get optimum results, you'd want to use a woofer designed for the cabinet you've got.

Biggles

Thanks. The Cornwall is bass reflex, not acoustic suspension; but point taken that cabinets and driver need to work together for good sound. We shall see how a K33 does in a folded horn. Oddly, the older EV drivers seem too stiff to really shine in these cabinets.

 

[grindstone]

Love the curiosity. I would make a new baffle and use the new horns, etc. Seal things well (weatherstripping, etc) and add a good load of fiberglass behind the driver on the walls and let it rip

To me, the TRX's (never heard 15's, only 12's) were similar to the 6201's--musical and lovely but limited/polite when it came to demanding material. FWIW.

Regency cabs are really resonant--they're almost end-driven pipes (flared ducts). They need damping, but they also tolerate a lot of drivers. If you could characterize your 15TRX drivers (or have an AK'er friend measure woofer parameters), anyone could help with sims vs. K33's etc.

K33's will work fine like 15WK's (Q's 0.25-ish), having slightly more output (and less LF) than say SP15's or 15W-1's (woofer-woofers with Q's 0.4-0.6). All those old EV "folded horn" cabinets share that property--the resonances are so strong that they can "overpower" the really light cone (20-something gram) drivers and yet work fine with more "normal" (50-something gram) woofers. They all emphasize 60-150 and can seem thunderous when used near boundaries as they're at least 6dB hot there.

I think it would be very beneficial to entertain the notion of experimenting with polyester (dacron) filling in both the rear chamber and the duct (to try to eat some of the harmonics). I would also brace the baffles better than the originals. You'd have to figure out what you're putting in to know where you could get some stiffening ribs in there. Many of us could help with CAD etc if you need input.

Cornies have their charms, but I couldn't suffer the beaming of the midhorns (after "Crites-ing up" the XO and the HF). I would use a modern CD horn if all the drivers could be made to fit, but I'd not try to make it a 2-way. On the cheap(ish), the 2" D2200PH + 18x10 ZXPC horns seem poplular. For tops, Mr. Ault's DE120-based machined SMAHL's seem to have a lot of fans. Maybe the midhorn has to be outboarded on top, who knows--if so, you could go bigger . If the pads and XO's are good, you could re-use them for the testing. Best of course is always a reworked scratch XO, but I bet the pads alone with that stuff would allow you to evaluate potential. Again, if you're doing all that, it's worth bracing better, IMO. Just ideas & freely running my mouth, don't mind me...

Please keep us posted if you feel like it.

 

[mitchalee]

Love the curiosity. I would make a new baffle and use the new horns, etc. Seal things well (weatherstripping, etc) and add a good load of fiberglass behind the driver on the walls and let it rip

To me, the TRX's (never heard 15's, only 12's) were similar to the 6201's--musical and lovely but limited/polite when it came to demanding material. FWIW.

Regency cabs are really resonant--they're almost end-driven pipes (flared ducts). They need damping, but they also tolerate a lot of drivers. If you could characterize your 15TRX drivers (or have an AK'er friend measure woofer parameters), anyone could help with sims vs. K33's etc.

K33's will work fine like 15WK's (Q's 0.25-ish), having slightly more output (and less LF) than say SP15's or 15W-1's (woofer-woofers with Q's 0.4-0.6). All those old EV "folded horn" cabinets share that property--the resonances are so strong that they can "overpower" the really light cone (20-something gram) drivers and yet work fine with more "normal" (50-something gram) woofers. They all emphasize 60-150 and can seem thunderous when used near boundaries as they're at least 6dB hot there.

I think it would be very beneficial to entertain the notion of experimenting with polyester (dacron) filling in both the rear chamber and the duct (to try to eat some of the harmonics). I would also brace the baffles better than the originals. You'd have to figure out what you're putting in to know where you could get some stiffening ribs in there. Many of us could help with CAD etc if you need input.

Cornies have their charms, but I couldn't suffer the beaming of the midhorns (after "Crites-ing up" the XO and the HF). I would use a modern CD horn if all the drivers could be made to fit, but I'd not try to make it a 2-way. On the cheap(ish), the 2" D2200PH + 18x10 ZXPC horns seem poplular. For tops, Mr. Ault's DE120-based machined SMAHL's seem to have a lot of fans. Maybe the midhorn has to be outboarded on top, who knows--if so, you could go bigger . If the pads and XO's are good, you could re-use them for the testing. Best of course is always a reworked scratch XO, but I bet the pads alone with that stuff would allow you to evaluate potential. Again, if you're doing all that, it's worth bracing better, IMO. Just ideas & freely running my mouth, don't mind me...

Please keep us posted if you feel like it.

Thanks! All great impulses! Yes, I did consider 2-way, and may eventually go there. But that makes it a whole different animal entirely. And I want a little of the older sound. No so much EV or Klipsch or Bozak, but something in that domain as opposed to clean edgy modern speakers.

Just as another test, I hooked up 4 flat panel AMT style mid-tweeters, left the internal tweeter live, but turned it way down. This gives a very nice presentation of modern country music, most rock, and, very oddly, also Bach's cantatas. Go figure. But it lacks something with big band and combo jazz and acoustic folk is muddy. Essentially it is 2-way.

I got much better sound using the tweeters with old Karlson cabinets with 12" Amazon Goldwood specials. Again, go figure! Judge by results only.

 

[drbiggles]

Thanks. The Cornwall is bass reflex, not acoustic suspension; but point taken that cabinets and driver need to work together for good sound. We shall see how a K33 does in a folded horn. Oddly, the older EV drivers seem too stiff to really shine in these cabinets.

Whoa, yeah my mistake. Carry on.

Biggles

 

[grindstone]

Thanks! All great impulses! Yes, I did consider 2-way, and may eventually go there. But that makes it a whole different animal entirely. And I want a little of the older sound. No so much EV or Klipsch or Bozak, but something in that domain as opposed to clean edgy modern speakers.

Just as another test, I hooked up 4 flat panel AMT style mid-tweeters, left the internal tweeter live, but turned it way down. This gives a very nice presentation of modern country music, most rock, and, very oddly, also Bach's cantatas. Go figure. But it lacks something with big band and combo jazz and acoustic folk is muddy. Essentially it is 2-way.

I got much better sound using the tweeters with old Karlson cabinets with 12" Amazon Goldwood specials. Again, go figure! Judge by results only.

Ah, I see I've made the acquaintance of a Fine and Proper Madman (thanks for the pics!). Ears win and because I can--I know that drill. Carry-on.

Cleaning-up big 2-ways costs a lot of money for woofers that play high and tweeters that play low in my exp. The limits remain. What I've learned is that it's cheaper and easier in the end to choose 3-ways (again).

I agree with you about trying to use the older, XX-watt rated, lighter, big Vas woofers as they can "come alive" at lower levels than the contemporary (400-kilowatt of PA) drivers which need to survive that. I know it's as personal as a food preference, but that's my impression from what I've tried/learned.

IMO, as long as you have a phenolic midhorn, there will be soul and it wont get too pretty. Got a buddy that runs AMT's over phenolic mids and loves symphony (Georgian bins). FWIW.

 

[Bicyclist]

There is something magic about lower powered drivers.