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Empire motor speed issue

J

jmacster

Member
Hello AK folk

recently i have gotten the bug for Empire TT's I have a 598 and an unknown model from 1962 the date is inscribed on the underside of the metal plinth. I think it is a 208. When I bought it from a guy in NJ it had been stored for quite a while and had no wood base. It came to me with a 990 arm which had to have been added later because that arm was not made in '62. This 990 arm has seen a Lot of use and feels "loose" so I changed it out and drilled for a Linn Basik that i have had for years and never got around to mounting it.

The issue I am fighting now is I cannot get the speed up enough, I have tried several belts but all of them run slow and I am wondering do folks take off this strange contraption on the top of the motor I guess it is supposed to maintain tension as the belt ages and stretches?

From all I have read Empire turntables with this Pabst motor Always run fairly true wrt speed, I am wondering it this stepped pully is the correct diameter. This motor seems very quiet.

I changed the start cap to a more modern one but I do not think a cap would make a difference in speed anyway.

I include a photo here , please don't judge the base it is just an old AR XA base that i set this on while I am building one out of spalted maple for this ;)

Any help is appreciated

John
 

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I have a 208. Can you quantify how slow is it running? Either rpm or percent slow.

Did you turn the pitch adjustment screw which protrudes from one of the motor mount grommets? Did you clean the turntable platter bearing well and add oil? Did you lubricate motor bearing? You can access it on bottom of motor.
 
More then likely, its your thrust washer at the bottom of the bearing shaft that has worn a divot in it. The Empire platter shaft has a semi-circle pivot that will wear out the Delrin washer. You can either (going in from the bottom, need retaining ring extractor) replace it or hopefully the other side is still good so you can flip it and that will get you by until you can get a new one.
 
I recently rebuilt a 208 and the speed was just as accurate before and after I replaced the worn thrust plate.

Marc Morin might be willing to fabricate a new plate for you, but that's likely not causing your speed issues. I suspect it's the belt.

Has the motor been serviced at all? It's not hard to work on.
 
beatcomber said:
I recently rebuilt a 208 and the speed was just as accurate before and after I replaced the worn thrust plate.

Marc Morin might be willing to fabricate a new plate for you, but that's likely not causing your speed issues. I suspect it's the belt.

Has the motor been serviced at all? It's not hard to work on.
Click to expand...

I disagree. In my case, it was directly related to speed issues. The hole in the washer was almost as large as the pivot point and causing considerable drag. An incorrect belt may cause a speed issue, but the OP said he tried several different belts. Since it is a vintage table (I have one as well), odds are that the washer has never been looked at and is indeed semi to very worn out. It at least deserves to be checked out.
 
The only issue I had with Thorens and Empire tables that ran excessively slow was gummed up motors, which I had to brake down clean up and re-lube. Get the lightest thinnest belt you can find after the you have ironed out the other problems. It will reduce the rumble and W&F. We used a European belt back in the 80's and 90's.
 
Bingo - Wayner nailed it. Worn plate = more drag = slow speed. Nothing wrong with a new belt and a rebuilt motor either. If yer gonna take the time, do it right.
 
Last edited:
Alright. We've all given the OP some good advice. I once did buy a "cheapie" belt that was actually the wrong size and pulled the platter and motor closer together. It did "F" up the speed, but at the same time, I had the worn washer. I also had varying speed (the old wow and flutter crap). But I found a guy that had the right belt length and another guy that had the right washers and for the most part, the speed thing went away.

I should, at some point, disconnect the running capacitor and see what we get for uf values. Also, does anyone ever lube up the motor bearings and if so, where the hell do you do that?

BTW, my Empire 598MKII is a table that I bought when I was about 19 years old. I am now 62 and it still works (even the 990 arm) although the AS is slightly finicky.

My eventual goal is to replace the arm with a Jelco 250 arm.......
 
WaynerN said:
Alright. We've all given the OP some good advice. I once did buy a "cheapie" belt that was actually the wrong size and pulled the platter and motor closer together. It did "F" up the speed, but at the same time, I had the worn washer. I also had varying speed (the old wow and flutter crap). But I found a guy that had the right belt length and another guy that had the right washers and for the most part, the speed thing went away.

I should, at some point, disconnect the running capacitor and see what we get for uf values. Also, does anyone ever lube up the motor bearings and if so, where the hell do you do that?

BTW, my Empire 598MKII is a table that I bought when I was about 19 years old. I am now 62 and it still works (even the 990 arm) although the AS is slightly finicky.

My eventual goal is to replace the arm with a Jelco 250 arm.......
Click to expand...

I got at the lower motor bearing by unscrewing it. I pried out the delrin thrust plate and flipped it over, and replaced the ball bearing while i was in there.
 
jmacster said:
The issue I am fighting now is I cannot get the speed up enough, I have tried several belts but all of them run slow and I am wondering do folks take off this strange contraption on the top of the motor I guess it is supposed to maintain tension as the belt ages and stretches?
Click to expand...

How slow is it? Did you turn the speed adjustment screw located under the detachable cover over the motor? The screw basically tilts the motor to make the belt grab a different portion of the curved pulley step.
 
WaynerN,

Agreed here. I think that the thrust bearing, the belt and it's thickness (a critical item here) and the motor being gunked up all contribute to your issues on speed constancy. And also this issue is common on both Empire and Pioneer PL 50 turntables. Some love, attention, and correct parts to replace worn, and you should have superb performance again, and be like new and in ways maybe better.
 
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