Energy 22 Reference Connoisseur Speakers

[Bigerik]

Well, I wouldn't replace the tweeters unless it was an upgrade. All standard rules would apply, including reworking the crossover.

Erik, you are comparing each to a "pair". You need to be comparing 320.00/pr to the 310.00/pr he mentioned. Even if it can be done for 260.00/pr, thats not a huge difference by any stretch of the imagination.

No, I am comparing them to what they cost EACH. His original post stated:

"But I cant afford the $310 for the tweeter rebuild."

Very easy to read that as $310 EACH, as he never stated it was for a pair. Again, I just want to make sure there is accurate information out there for anyone who is looking at undertaking this project.

 

[braxus]

Bigerik,

Hope you didn't mind me using your pic for display reasons. Anyway since you probably have heard many speakers, how do they compare against the 800 series B&W? I'm thinking 804S.

 

[dnewma04]

But that was clarified by him in a subsequent post, as well as by me. It wasn't worded especially clearly, but he didn't specify each or pair pricing initially. You read it as each, I read it as pricing for a pair.

 

[Bigerik]

Bigerik,

Hope you didn't mind me using your pic for display reasons. Anyway since you probably have heard many speakers, how do they compare against the 800 series B&W? I'm thinking 804S.

No worries about the pic. Just put a smile on my face to see it there.
Wow. Tough question. This may sound like a cop out, but it is so system dependent that it is tough to say. The 22's are incredibly picky and will not do well if driven buy average quality electronics. They demand better stuff. Energy expected that when people bought speakers this expensive (call it around $5K 2008 dollars) they would have the rest of their system of comparable quality. If anything, from the guys at Energy I talked to, they went a little too far, so later speakers were designed to be run by a little more mid-fi type of gear. The Ref Con was about as good as it got.
Soundwise, they are neutral with an astonishing amount of bass for a speaker of that size. The bottom port makes them a bit placement sensitive to make sure the bass does not get boomy. But with the right gear, they sound shockingly good.
I realize I did not answer your question exactly, but I hope I gave some insight as to what they might sound like.

 

[Bigerik]

But that was clarified by him in a subsequent post, as well as by me. It wasn't worded especially clearly, but he didn't specify each or pair pricing initially. You read it as each, I read it as pricing for a pair.

Dave, whats your point?
He stated no where in his original post that it was for a pair. He used the singular to describe them. I wanted to make sure anyone who reads this thread gets accurate pricing.

I wanted to clarify two issues:
1) They are $160 EACH for a rebuild.
2) You need not rebuild 2 at a time. Of all the 22 tweeters I have had, only one has been bad and needed a rebuild. When this was rebuilt by Energy, I heard no difference between it and the original tweeter in the other cabinet.

 

[braxus]

Ok. I am currently running Rotel amps at this time (1070) and may upgrade to a McIntosh tube amp (275) down the road. I was planning on getting the B&W 804S speaker. Since these Energys have come available- I'm having a hard time wondering if the B&W still might be a better speaker or not. I guess what is making me wonder is a 26 year old design vs a basically new current design. I know the tweeter in this thing goes up to 45khz and most speakers don't go much above 23khz or maybe 30khz at best. I used to own a Paradigm 5SE Mk2 pair of speakers, so I'm familiar with what kind of sound a 7 to 8 inch woofer made with polypropelene sounds like. Im amazed a 7 inch woofer can go down to 25 Hz. Some subs can't go lower then that. I guess Im also having a hard time wondering how a used $900 speaker will fare against basically a new $5000 speaker?

 

[Bigerik]

Ok. I am currently running Rotel amps at this time and may upgrade to a McIntosh tube amp (275) down the road. I was planning on getting the B&W 804S speaker. Since these Energys have come available- I'm having a hard time wondering if the B&W still might be a better speaker or not. I guess what is making me wonder is a 26 year old design vs a basically new current design. I know the tweeter in this thing goes up to 45khz and most speakers don't go much above 23khz or maybe 30khz at best. I used to own a Paradigm 5SE Mk2 pair of speakers, so I'm familiar with what kind of sound a 7 to 8 inch woofer made with polypropelene sounds like. Im amazed a 7 inch woofer can go down to 25 Hz. Some subs can't go lower then that. I guess Im also having a hard time wondering how a used $900 speaker will fare against basically a new $5000 speaker?

Well, to be honest, I would be suprised if the B&W's did not sound better. Their have been a lot of great things happening in speaker design in the last 25 years.
$900 for a pair is a little high. $500-700 is about the going price for 22 Ref Cons that I have seen recently. Will you be able to get the B&W's for less than about $3000? You can buy your amp for the difference in cost.
As for the Paradigms, they sound nothing like the 22's. I mean not even close.

My recommendation? Go have a listen to the Energys. That is always the best way to decide if YOU like the sound or not.

 

[braxus]

Yes I was going to give them a listen, but the store that sells them has mostly old equipment. Plus it would be in a large room I suspect. I'd get these anyway if I needed them for a second system, but I don't have a need for a second system. I have a seperate system for video editting, but I can only use bookshelf speakers with it. I still may get the B&Ws, but I'll see. The store may not even have the Energys by the time I go to possibly buy them.

Bigerik- Can Energy not rebuild these speakers anymore? I was wondering why they still don't have replacement parts for these. B&W and Paradigm have parts for their speakers going back 20+ years.

 

[Bigerik]

Bigerik- Can Energy not rebuild these speakers anymore? I was wondering why they still don't have replacement parts for these. B&W and Paradigm have parts for their speakers going back 20+ years.

Klipsch raped and pillaged (I mean bought out) API/Energy in the past year, so all the great Energy service is no longer available from them. What they did do is hand over all the rebuilding gear to their official east coast reapir tech and he is doing the rebuilds. He bought ALL the leftover Energy parts, as well as the tooling to make new diaphragms and is doing a very brisk business in keeping old Energy and Mirage speakers up and running. He is doing woofers now too, so we really have no worries about parts availability in the future. Chris a great guy to deal with and a very enthusiastic Energy fan.

He can be reached at:

Christopher Coote
ABI Technical Service
chris@abitech.ca

 

[braxus]

Wow. I am also buying a C200 speaker and I'm told this model has been out for a couple of years. Would I be safe to assume it was designed and released before the Klipsch buy out? They could be the last new Energy speakers I buy if that is the case.

As per the 22RC- how can you tell the drivers need rebuilding? Is their a common sound they make when they are going? Or is this only the case when the drivers are blown? Its been 20 years since I've listened to these speakers, so a common reference would be helpful should the speakers need replacing.

 

[Bigerik]

Wow. I am also buying a C200 speaker and I'm told this model has been out for a couple of years. Would I be safe to assume it was designed and released before the Klipsch buy out? They could be the last new Energy speakers I buy if that is the case.

As per the 22RC- how can you tell the drivers need rebuilding? Is their a common sound they make when they are going? Or is this only the case when the drivers are blown? Its been 20 years since I've listened to these speakers, so a common reference would be helpful should the speakers need replacing.

It was truly depressing to go up to the formerly busy API factory and see how dead it looked. Used to be such a great company to deal with. Oh well.

How can you tell? A tweeter gets real quiet all of a sudden....

What kills them is that the ferrofluid in the tweeters dries out and then if you over drive them, they heat up and burn out. Used carefully, and with good quality equipment, they can last for ages. Remember, a cheap, low quality amp can destroy a speaker faster than a high quality powerful one. Or even a less powerful high quality amp.
Never seen a woofer go bad. I am guessing you would really have to overdrive them with a crap amp to kill them. I played them VERY loud with never a complaint. Wouldn't worry about the woofer at all.

 

[braxus]

Would it be safe to run the Rotels on these or do you need even better amps? I know the Rotels have tons of power which these speakers would like, but I can't say if these amps are still too low end to use them on these speakers. Im running a RB-1070 at the moment.

 

[Bigerik]

Would it be safe to run the Rotels on these or do you need even better amps? I know the Rotels have tons of power which these speakers would like, but I can't say if these amps are still too low end to use them on these speakers. Im running a RB-1070 at the moment.

I think the Rotel would do fine. You might not get the best out of the Energys with it, but it has just the kind of power the Energys like and lots of current, so it should be a happy combo. The Energys are kind of a funky load, so you want something with some current to keep them, and the amp happy.

 

[fazman]

Would it be safe to run the Rotels on these or do you need even better amps? I know the Rotels have tons of power which these speakers would like, but I can't say if these amps are still too low end to use them on these speakers. Im running a RB-1070 at the moment.

Although I agree about amps here, they make a huge difference but the biggest diff you'll find with these Energys is room placement. They will get boomy if you don't give them room to breath. Is there any way you can buy them with the option to bring them back if they are not right for you?

 

[fazman]

Here are some pics of how far I have mine from the wall...

 

[Bigerik]

Although I agree about amps here, they make a huge difference but the biggest diff you'll find with these Energys is room placement. They will get boomy if you don't give them room to breath. Is there any way you can buy them with the option to bring them back if they are not right for you?

Agreed. They really are not a speaker for a very small size room, even though the small footprint would make you think they would be ok. You want them probably a couple of feet out to avoid the boomy bass that was mentioned by Fazman.

 

[soundboy]

Wow. I am also buying a C200 speaker and I'm told this model has been out for a couple of years. Would I be safe to assume it was designed and released before the Klipsch buy out? They could be the last new Energy speakers I buy if that is the case.

Yes, this speaker was released before the Klipsch buyout. Energy really hasn't released any new speakers until the recent announcements of new models.

 

[Unican_Eric]

Ok, I have it right from the horses mouth.
I e-mailed Christopher Coote from the link in Bigeriks post.
The cost of one tweeter rebuild is $160. So two is $320. The cost to ship them back after the repair is $15 for the pair. Of course the cost to ship them there is probably the same.
So if you want yours done your looking at roughly $350 for the pair including shipping. If you want 1 done then I guess you would half that.

So if I pissed anyone off or was not clear in my posting I apologize.

 

[marc mc]

I would always stay with the original tweeters for these excellent speakers. IMO if you have a pair the rebuild price is fair. To say the tweeters could be matched by a horn is a stretch IMO and most others would probably have a hard time with the low crossover point.

The 22's are still the giant killer poster child and all these years later it's still kicking asses. I will always have a pair in one of my systems and I seem to spend a fair amount of time listening to them.

marc mc

 

[marc mc]

Thought I would add a couple pictures of my connie's. These are sensational speakers. And because I have a pair of Pro 22's and Ref 22's as well I can say that they are not even close to these.

I use the following with them,

Rega P3, RB300 , Exact
EAD T100 Transport.
Aragon D2A2 Dac.
Acurus A250 Amp.
Dayton-Wright SPA Preamp.

marc mc