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EPI M180 Speakers

SPL db

SPL db

It's all about the music!
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Have a chance to pick these up locally... the link is not the actual speakers.

Anyone hear a pair before? With EPI, how could I really go wrong? :D

EPI M180 Speakers

Haven't agreed on any price yet... these are being offered along with a Marantz
2245 :naughty: , Pioneer CT-F1000 :thmbsp: , and a Dual 1226 :) .

Scott
 
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My EPI 120Cs have the same version of the "airspring" tweeter and I must say, it is a mighty fine driver, capable of blending modestly well as rears when I was running planar fronts, which are very difficult to catch in speed. However, I don't get the driver placement, it seems fairly random and I'd think would only serve to smear the image something awful. Anyone know the reasoning behind it other than to give more sound?

epi180c.jpg


Still look like something that'd be awfully fun to have and play around with.
- JP
 
They sound great with most amps. I got 1 receiver that doesnt like them.

Deep bass and clean highs. They rock out pretty well too.
 
Had a pair way back when, wish I had 'em back. If they're in good shape and a reasonable price, go for it!
 
soundmotor said:
.....said the man with a dodecahedral speaker in his sig.....

:D
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Haha, well, yeah. If you're going to smear the sound, do it right and spray it in all directions and don't bother with half-measures like staggering the tweeters and putting them on opposite sides of the baffle. My thoughts are simple, as always, in that it would've made a great deal more sense to put the tweeters on the same side so that they're on the same axis and can also be mirror-imaged simply. I suppose these vintage speaks should be given some leeway on that simply for being old and the Burhoe module is a good one.

- JP
 
Charivari said:
If you're going to smear the sound, do it right and spray it in all directions and don't bother with half-measures like staggering the tweeters and putting them on opposite sides of the baffle.
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Ah, a zealot, I can appreciate that!

:)
 
=Charivariit would've made a great deal more sense to put the tweeters on the same side so that they're on the same axis and can also be mirror-imaged simply. - JP
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I agree. I saw a pair of those recently, and passed. Imaging problems, I imagined.

Got a mint pair of 100's for 90 bucks that day. :thmbsp:
 
I need to go on more.

The EPI 180's are made very well with 1" thick board with lots of internal bracing and insulation. there is no real crossover in them, just the pot in the back and a capacitor.

The sound is great. just smooth sound all around, no harshness. The highs are clear and clean, but I do feel there isnt much loudness to them (well, when you listen to Cornwalls all the time...).

I now have them hooked up to my tubed Kenwood and Im hoping for a much better soundstage. Luckly, my tube kenwood is just powerfull enough to get them to listening volume without clipping. These speakers are not super efficient in the loudness (Im guessing 88 DB or so to me).
 
I recently found a pair of these for $10 but I haven't had time to hook them up yet.

As for imaging issues, somebody here explained it to me like this. The 180 is essentially two pairs of 100Vs in the same cabinet in a variation of the "stacked Advent" configuration. With the drivers in the X configuration, your brain averages the two drivers' source to a point midway between the drivers. With the tweeter and woofer in the X formation, they both "meet in the middle" approximating a point source.

Now whether that's how it really works, I wouldn't know.
 
epi 180 find

I realize this is a way old, archived thread but I'm so impressed with these things I am weighing in..

I have to say I find the EPI 180's amazing... I used to have a pair of Klipsch Cornwalls and several sets of Heresy's but they all had to go. Somewhere I acquired a pair of EPI 70's and one of them dropped and I repaired the magnet assembly. THen I really listened to them and I was blown away. I found this pair of EP 180's in Phoenix and I bought them on eBay sight unseen and drove up and got them. They don't have the bass (surprise surprise) that the Cornwalls did but they sound more even throughout the frequency range and I can listen to these for hours and hours and hours (which was an issue for me with the Klipsch Heresy I's). The EPI 180's are so even... and versatile. they sound great listening to rock, radio, jazz, classical. They even make my ipod sound playable. I listen to a lot of vinyl, especally jazz. I love the time further out series of Brubeck and the sound-staging and imaging is very accurate with this design. Others in this thread know a lot more about the theory of speaker design than I do but all I can say is this: it works. I experimented with a few different woofer replacements but ultimately stuck with the original complement and did some refoaming. I realized one of the tweets' domes were pierced and I replaced the tweet with another original. They are heavy suckers and I have them sitting toed in, slightly pointed up, on home-depot plant stands (hey, don't laugh, passed the WAF). I run them off a sony str-v444 (circa 1999) home theater amp, and really basic speaker wire, and they sound fine. I would think improving the wire would bring out more bass. I do use a sub-woofer to add some power to the lower range, and it all sounds fine. The best part is this line of speakers is not nearly in demand as some of the other brand names of the era.... making my set a very affordable $150. I don't have a lot of time to comb through estate sales... really happy with the finished product and it was either this or a $1600 set of Klipsh Heresy III's. I got what I needed, for now, at 1/10th the price. I think the Burhoe story is a cool one; maybe what somebody needs to do is ask the designer himself why/how he came up with the driver placement. Myself, I'm good. They work, they sound awesome, and they will kick rock, jazz, or classical. That's all I need.
 
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Skyislander, I agree with you. I re-foamed a pair of M180s late last year and gave them a lengthy audition when I was done. They like power (I used a 60 WPC Heathkit AR-1500 receiver to drive them) and sound best on stands with a slight toe-in. They're fun speakers to listen to, absolutely non-fatiguing, with a realistic soundstage, and they sounded very good to me on classical, jazz and rock. If I had to pick nits, the only minor complaint I'd offer is that the midrange is less transparent and detailed than it is in many modern higher-end speakers such as the Von Schweikerts in my big system. I'm now looking for an opportunity (or an excuse) to set up a permanent extension system with the M180s and the Heathkit receiver.
 
I will tell you guys that the EPI line is very demanding of any given amplifier. They can be deceiving in that they can be driven and will sound fine with a 40 watt or so receiver. However, when driven by a well designed power amp with a very robust power supply they really begin to perform as they were designed.

You mention they don't have the bass. Oh, my friend, I can assure you they do. If you have gotten used to Klipsch then what you are hearing is the exaggerated 60 cycle or so punch that most people think is bass. In fact it is not, at least not the deep, fundamental bass that the larger EPI speakers are capable of. Heck, the EPI 50s are good to about 50 cycles within 3.

But, most importantly, you have discovered the real joy of a linear, low distortion reproducer. Years ago EPI had an ad that showed a fairly handsome couple, naked in an embrace. The caption read "EPI Speakers, the second best reproduction system in the world".

I think they weren't far wrong.
 
my sansui 7900z plays good with my epicure 3.0's but i would love to hear them with an dedicated amp for each channel then they truely would sing. they like the power thats for sure
 
I run two pair of 180's in my basement when I fall back to the days of disco and Donna Summer...they have plenty of tight bass!
 
I have a pair re-foamed, still need to recap.
Does the idea of replacing one of the front panels and configuring the drivers in a true mirror of the other 'sound' worthwhile?
It seems like they could use additional box fill also - has anyone
experimented, how much box fill seemed the best?
So far I am pleased with the performance - a little boomy but I believe that is
partly due to my setup, they are being driven by a Sansui 881
 
I've had the 180's now in a few different rooms and I finally busted out some fat speaker cables that I got from another eBayer and hooked it all up with my sony str-7055. I found the bass. Could have been the speaker cables, might have been the receiver. I also recently got a Topping tp-60 and with the fat cables I still have bass. They sound best with the old Sony but the WAF factor votes the Tripath amp tucked in a "cubby-hole" in the bookcase. So I took a chance and emailed THE MAN and THE MAN didst reply unto me. THE MAN said some dealers had the 202's and others did not so to make the other dealers happy "Marketing" came up with the 180's with front-firing drivers and they were placed for maximum dispersion. There you have it. THE MAN hath spoken. Anywho I like 'em. The room I have them in is pretty tough for placement but one thing I give the new Topping amp is it has helped with imaging. One thing the ancient Sony does is offer slightly better mid-range. I listen to classical sometimes and Anne-Sophie Mutter's violin busts out on the Sony (with the fat cables) in a way the Topping does not but to be fair I am still breaking in the Topping...only about 50 hours so far. Did I mention I finally found the bass???
 
SPL db said:
Have a chance to pick these up locally... the link is not the actual speakers.

Anyone hear a pair before? With EPI, how could I really go wrong? :D

EPI M180 Speakers

Haven't agreed on any price yet... these are being offered along with a Marantz
2245 :naughty: , Pioneer CT-F1000 :thmbsp: , and a Dual 1226 :) .

Scott
Click to expand...
If you can find a pair of these get them. The earlier and oldest the better. I like the gold rings and pre 1984. The older ones were made with heavier cabinets and better grill covers. Stay away from the T/E series. I owned these speakers in the 70's and bought them back because I never was able to find any speakers that came close to these in sound quality for the money. The speakers will produce awesome effortless bass and the bigger the room they are in the louder they get. If you move them closer to corners or a wall the bass will increase without losing imaging quality. One poster was correct in saying the half way point between the double driver system creates a point source, Each speaker not only sounds like a single 2 way system the woofer tweeter sounds like a single driver due to the simple crossover being a capacitor that does nothing but room bass from the tweeter. The natural response of the woofer and tweeter both designed and manufactured in the U.S.A. by EPI were so carefully designed so that they blend seamlessly. These are not woofers and tweeters that a manufacturer bought from Japan and China that were blended by the use of a complicated crossover. They were designed so closely matched that no crossover at all is needed. Just a simple capacitor at 6db per octave so the tweeter is not overloaded with bass the rest is just the natural roll off of each driver. Bass is deep and warm yet tight and detailed. The bass will bloom and sock you in the chest. Mids and highs also bloom nicely. No sign of an anemic lower midrange yet tight and coherent. Detail, transparency, and palpable presence is simply astonishing. They have the finesse of a great pair of mini monitors but without the compression of small speakers. They sound effortless like very large speakers. You can position these speakers far apart and there is no center hole. In fact the farther apart you position them the more air surrounds each instrument and more distinct and focused each instrument becomes. FULL BODIED SOUND THAT IS RARE IN ANY SPEAKERS REGARDLESS OF PRICE. Stereo separation is solid and pin point instead of diffuse. Speakers producing sound this natural, silky sweet, detailed and seamless without strain or harshness at higher levels but also sound fantastic at really low levels are very difficult and rare to find at any price. B&W speakers come to mind but even those cannot create some of the magic these are capable of. The old Technics SA receivers of the 70's like the SA500 to SA1000 and Creek or B&K amplifiers that are well made and sweet sounding designs really show what these speakers can do without breaking your wallet. EPI 180 speakers are sound you will never forget. Because of their modest price nobody dare say these could very well be the best speakers ever made. Modern speakers while sounding good can never sound as good as these as these drivers were designed and built by the manufacturer and by Winslow Burhoe one of the great speaker designers. Some of the most expensive speaker designs today are copies of Burhoes designs but at enormous price tags. They might come in much nicer cabinets and overkill drivers and crossovers that increase the price not counting inflation but none will sound better. These speakers just sound right and that's not easy to do at any price. Speaker manufacturers spend thousands of dollars into exotic designs trying to make them sound right when a simpler design approach done the right way is the way to achieve it. I have no problem saying these are one of the top speakers ever made in terms of ease of listening and linearity because no matter what speakers you hear you will never forget the sound of these. The sound will simply blow you away. Best kept secret in audio. Information on EPI speakers and replacement parts could be found at Human Speakers. There's no better name to follow up on EPI speakers then the word human. They breath with life and the emotion of music like few speaker designs.
 
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