Got_Horns
Active Member
I can never have to much BASS!!
EPI Speakers Appreciation
- Thread starter corbin
- Start date
bonzoro
Swill Bucket
I have resto'd many pairs of Epicure 20+ speakers and the last set I did, They didn't sound right. I bought the "Kit" from Human Speakers and I couldn't get rid of them fast enough. The 8" replacements and rebuilt tweeters changed the original sound so I found another set to spiff up. I bought a pair of these from the PX back in 1980 in Germany and got hooked on the sound. You guys are correct, they are NOT for JAMMING. They are audiophile speakers and placement is crucial. My set is in my shop for mule duty checking new amps I build but will find a spot when my Family room gets it's facelift.
I had Midwest Speaker refoam the original Blue 8" drivers and they are keepers. They are on the fall "to do" list and will get a fresh veneering of Ribbon Mahogany and the Grills need recovering.
As far as having "New" Ferrofluid installed in the tweeters??? The tweeter needs to be completely disassembled which includes taking the magnets off and it's such a big job, even Huw won't do them. If your ferrofluid is not running down the front of the tweeter (from beating on them) use them and have fun, maybe pick up a spare set from the bay. The only time I ever had a weeping set of tweeters was when I used a Sansui Super Eleven about wide open for a party. The Super Eleven didn't have enough power to properly drive them and adding that distortion/heat will do it.
The set I have now are nicer than these and don't have the Human Tweeters (or the dust).
I had Midwest Speaker refoam the original Blue 8" drivers and they are keepers. They are on the fall "to do" list and will get a fresh veneering of Ribbon Mahogany and the Grills need recovering.
As far as having "New" Ferrofluid installed in the tweeters??? The tweeter needs to be completely disassembled which includes taking the magnets off and it's such a big job, even Huw won't do them. If your ferrofluid is not running down the front of the tweeter (from beating on them) use them and have fun, maybe pick up a spare set from the bay. The only time I ever had a weeping set of tweeters was when I used a Sansui Super Eleven about wide open for a party. The Super Eleven didn't have enough power to properly drive them and adding that distortion/heat will do it.
The set I have now are nicer than these and don't have the Human Tweeters (or the dust).
Yes indeed you can !!!
And I hear it often ... rattling the cars beside me at the stop light ...
An extended, fast, and accurate bottom end is a different story altogether ...
That would be a very bad idea ..
Modifying the designs of a designer with the chops and ears of Winslow Burhoe isn't likely to come to any good end ..
If it would improve the 400, he would have done it ..
There are very, very few designers out there with as many classic speakers to their credit .. Henry Kloss maybe, but they were partners ...
There are four 6" drivers in there because together they move as much air as a bigger driver ..
But bigger drivers distort the midrange with uncontrolled resonances .. and would require chokes. (and a midrange driver)
The 6" driver is clean, quick, and accurate in the lower midrange and upper bass and integrates much more naturally with the tweeter ..
Both woofer and tweeter can be designed to roll off naturally and complement each other while they're rolling off.
Put four 6" drivers in the box and you will achieve lower bass ..
He knew what he was doing ...
The 6" and the tweeter were designed to operate together to cover the mid-bass to treble .. the box provides the low bass.
He designed both of those drivers ..
If you modify it, you will muddle it ...
( and regardless of what you have read, his designs with the 6" are better than the 8's .. he moved to using the 6's because it was better integrated and more natural in the mid-range ... the 6" designs came after the 8" designs .. but low bass is harder to achieve with a 6" driver than it is with an 8 ) ..
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Interesting. I've used replacement Human Speaker drivers a few times and they always sound great.
Burhoe moved to using smaller woofers in his later designs ..
The 8" drivers were used in his earlier designs ... but the 8's were excellent for stand-alone two way's .. more bass ..
But the smaller woofers are better integrated .. especially in the modern days of subwoofers everywhere ..
The 8" drivers were used in his earlier designs ... but the 8's were excellent for stand-alone two way's .. more bass ..
But the smaller woofers are better integrated .. especially in the modern days of subwoofers everywhere ..
Got_Horns
Active Member
No that's to much rattle. I listen to bass in music, not rattles.
I ripped my work car to bare metal, then spent a month sound deadening it. Spent more money on deadening, than on the car.....it hits decent spls with no rattles.
Can absolutely have to many rattles. Never to much BASS!
Looking for some troubleshoot experience please.
I recently picked up a pair of M150's (brass inlay). The woofers look re-surrounded (rubber).
On deep bass, both woofers rattle. This happens at higher volume, or on deep bass content, such as the opening on Blade Runner 2049 soundtrack.
The woofs move cleanly- pushing up/down reveal no apparent vc rubbing. And the surrounds are attached fine on cone and basket.
Any ideas?
I recently picked up a pair of M150's (brass inlay). The woofers look re-surrounded (rubber).
On deep bass, both woofers rattle. This happens at higher volume, or on deep bass content, such as the opening on Blade Runner 2049 soundtrack.
The woofs move cleanly- pushing up/down reveal no apparent vc rubbing. And the surrounds are attached fine on cone and basket.
Any ideas?
Agreed ... Original drivers only ..
Most designers used crossover components to control and eliminate unwanted driver resonances .. just cross it over under the resonant frequency and you won't hear it.
Burhoe was a minimalist, and re-designed the driver until the driver resonances no longer existed ..
No crossover components needed ..
That's one of the reasons that the Burhoe designs sound so natural .. especially at low volumes.
If you alter a Burhoe driver it's unlikely to ever sound as good as it originally did ..
The Burhoe design was primarily to spec'd be good but also to be cheap. He favored 8" woofers but used 6" woofers in many inclluding some very early designs, the EPI 50 and 70. But the 100 and other 8" woofer "Burhoe module" designs were the vast bulk of the model lineup for the entire time he was with the company. His most recent "Silent Speaker" design uses a custom 6" woofer (not the original spec) so it is certainly possible that he found the 8" design wanting.
Both woofers are good, but the 8" doesn't have any problems with midrange and goes lower.
Human drivers are very good IMO. I have the 6", 8", and 10" woofer along with several tweeters. They have a slightly different sound color than the originals and generally better specs, and will handle much more power.
Both woofers are good, but the 8" doesn't have any problems with midrange and goes lower.
Human drivers are very good IMO. I have the 6", 8", and 10" woofer along with several tweeters. They have a slightly different sound color than the originals and generally better specs, and will handle much more power.
He also produced a line of speakers under his own name which used the smaller drivers after his days at EPI and Epicure ..
mythless
Looking for projects!?
I am glad there is someone on AK who owns some of Huw's design!
If I were traveling to his neck of the woods, I would like to hear the 81DK.
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Me too. My 81’s sound great so I imagine the DK version in its larger cabinet is outstanding. I’d also like to hear the Direct Acoustics Silent Speaker 2 floor stander that he makes for Burhoe.
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@tybrad Lots of possibilities. Check for anything loose on the speaker, like that brass trim. Use a series of test tones to generate the frequency and volume where it makes the bad noise. Check it on the bench - might be a rubbing wire or loose spider or magnet. It is highly likely they've been refoamed if they aren't crumbling, so maybe the work there was defective. If so, removing the current foam and again testing with the tones will reveal if that simple problem is the issue.
You may find it's actually blown (i.e. voice coil is damage in some way). There are lots of reconing kits for EPI woofers if so. Also EPI drivers are usually available on eBay for reasonable prices.
You might want to start a new thread and post some pics. I'm sure it will attract attention from smart AKers.
You may find it's actually blown (i.e. voice coil is damage in some way). There are lots of reconing kits for EPI woofers if so. Also EPI drivers are usually available on eBay for reasonable prices.
You might want to start a new thread and post some pics. I'm sure it will attract attention from smart AKers.
TimF
Super Member
I would love to hear the Human 81 or even the 81 DK. I do wish that there were a few different finishes to the cabinets though, not a big fan of the shiny gloss nor the vinyl of the 81, but at the price point, hard to go wrong I would think.
I owned a pair of the Direct Acoustics Silent 2's quite a few years back, these were great little speakers that had a big sound to them. Great bass for such a small cabinet. Not the most refined of sounds overall, but still a great buy, and extreme fun. I recently was in contact with Huw on these, I was curious if he had ever put one of his own inverted dome tweeters in a pair of the Silents, as the 6" bass driver in them is his. He said he had played around with it. Made me wonder if he would do a "Special" version, but I didn't ask. Hmmm, maybe I should!
OutlawSun
Well-Known Member
They definitely seem like they were in that sweet spot as far as bang for your buck with the 100s.
The reason the 'stats resemble Janszens is that EPI acquired the company, and the exclusive rights to manufacture Arthur Janszen's redoubtable electrostatic panel. Over its range–from roughly 1kHz to well beyond audibility, it remains to my ears the finest, most natural midrange/tweeter ever made. When the tweeter was introduced in the days before stereo, its inventor recommended pairing it with Bozak 199 woofers, allowing them to roll off mechanically without electronic intervention. Recognizing the superiority of Janszen's tweeter, KLH was formed, and introduced its first product, the KLH One. This consisted of two twelve-inch acoustic suspension woofers, with an internal shelf to support Janszen's four-element tweeter, the 130. The combination was/is sublime.
Indeed they did, I recall reading an article once stating the actual production @ 500K pair. Sadly, nowhere near that number survived as I have yet to find a nice pair of them