Equalizer, yes or no?

[NJguy]

A while back i picked up a yamaha equalizer and connected itbto my marantz 2252b and when i play cds they seem to sound so much better through the equalizer. Today picked up a sony seq-711graphic equalizer probably from the 80s at goodwill for 8 bucks. Connected it to a marantz 2230 and again the before and after comparision playing a cd it sounds so much better with the equalizer.

So what does that say about the receivers (in this case two marantzs)? Do they sound as bad as they seem to sound when compared to when the eq is on? Or is it smoke and mirrors. Is the eq fooling us because the sound volume is boosted?

What gives here? And do you guys use equalizers. Also can these eqs be connected with a turntable?

 

[4-2-7]

EQ's don't boost sound they shift the sound frequency.

 

[whoaru99]

A while back i picked up a yamaha equalizer and connected itbto my marantz 2252b and when i play cds they seem to sound so much better through the equalizer. Today picked up a sony seq-711graphic equalizer probably from the 80s at goodwill for 8 bucks. Connected it to a marantz 2230 and again the before and after comparision playing a cd it sounds so much better with the equalizer.

So what does that say about the receivers (in this case two marantzs)? Do they sound as bad as they seem to sound when compared to when the eq is on? Or is it smoke and mirrors. Is the eq fooling us because the sound volume is boosted?

What gives here? And do you guys use equalizers. Also can these eqs be connected with a turntable?

Ideally, if the sliders on the EQ are set flat/at 0dB, and the EQ circuit itself isn't raising or lowering the signal level (is providing unity gain), then there should be very little to no change in the sound.

However, if you have the level of some frequencies boosted or cut or the EQ is otherwise changing the overall level, that certainly would result in a change of the sound. Whether that change is good or bad is in the ear of the beholder.

My philosophy? If you like what you hear then go for it.

 

[JBL GUY]

If you prefer the sound quality that you achieve when using an equalizer, that is fine, it is your choice.

"Is the eq fooling us because the sound volume is boosted?"

Yes...

This question requires a two part answer.

If you use a control on an equalizer to boost a certain frequency or range of frequencies, you do in fact increase the power (power from the amplifier and the acoustic output of the speakers) for the frequency frequencies that you have selected.

This will cause those frequencies to be louder in absolute measurable terms and in relationship to the other frequencies in the music.

The second answer has to do with the basic function of the human auditory system. Our hearing is not equally sensitive to all frequencies when it is presented with frequencies having the same acoustic power. This is commonly called the Fletcher-Munson equal loudness hearing curve, although it has be revised and changed over the years.

The point is, the actual frequency response of the human auditory system changes with the intensity of the sounds (music), that we hear.

So, not only does boosting certain frequencies increase the actual measurable power in those frequencies (making the music sound different), one must also take into account the change in the frequency response of our ears as the loudness of the frequencies boosted in increased.

To be clear, equalizers do not shift frequencies, they change the amplitude of the frequencies selected and of course an EQ can be used to boost or attenuate the selected frequencies.

Of course each persons perception of changes in sound quality may be different and the contribution to these changes may be less for change in the frequency response of the ear due to changes in the absolute acoustic power at any given frequency than the actual increase in the absolute acoustic power at any given frequency. And as can be seen from the picture below, it is frequency dependent.

And BTW NJguy, this is a good and very perceptive question.

Yes you can use an equalizer when using a turntable, but it must still be used for line level signals, not phono cartridge level signals, that also require a specific type of EQ that is provided by the phono stage called the RIAA EQ curve.

 

[whoaru99]

And BTW NJguy, this is a good and very perceptive question.

Yes you can use an equalizer when using a turntable, but it must still be used for line level signals, not phono cartridge level signals, that also require a specific type of EQ that is provided by the phono stage called the RIAA EQ curve.

It is a good question, actually. While the above is spot on technically, to make it clear, nothing special is necessary to make that happen.

The normal connecting points for EQs are in a tape monitor loop or in the pre out/main in loop or between the pre amp and power amp. All of these typical connection methods allow the EQ to be used with a turntable.

 

[sKiZo]

An equalizer can be a handy tool, used correctly. If you're getting a big bump in volume, try moving the entire slider array down a point or two to compensate. Ideally, you should get no gain as a result. Repeat as needed. One advantage of doing it that way is it's easy to A/B compare the results ...

 

[PapaBear]

There are definitely some setups that need an eq. I did not use eq on my first 2 Pioneer receivers (424, 1010). I got a Kenwood 9050 that did need it. Ditto for the Technics separates that followed it. I now am back to a Pio 737 and removed the eq. In the case of the Kenwood, it was on the same speakers as the 1010, in the same room. Even with the eq, I could never quite match the Pioneer's sound. My 737 today uses completely different speakers, in a completely different space. However, the sound is almost identical to the 1010's. While not in the least bit scientific, it certainly supports the ideology of "if you need eq, you need different gear."

 

[GD70]

I will always use EQ's. For my ears, and listening environments, it allows me to custom taylor the sound to bring out the best sound for me. For me, basic bass and treble controls are not enough. Do recording studios use just bass and treble sliders mastering music tracks?

Just my 2c.

 

[NJguy]

Thanks for all the answers. My biggest head scratch is that after using a eq im left thinking that all receivers suck n matter how much we read how great marantz or whatever brand is. i feel deceived.

 

[whoaru99]

Guess I'm a little lost in regard to what you mean by the "all receivers suck no matter how much we read" thing. Could you elaborate a bit more what you mean by that?

 

[coonmanx]

If you like using an EQ and the way it sounds then by all means use one. I don't think that means that "all receivers suck" however. It is just a tool.

 

[Hajidub]

I know I'll get bashed for saying it, but if you need to equalize the path there's something lacking in your setup. Listen to it like it was meant to be heard!

 

[whoaru99]

I know I'll get bashed for saying it,

As well you should be.

Don't get me wrong, I probably listen more non-EQed/non-corrected than with, but I don't consider that way to be necessarily "as it was meant to be heard". For one, I doubt my room acoustics are anything like that of the mastering suite (or whatever it's called).

 

[avionic]

I know I'll get bashed for saying it, but if you need to equalize the path there's something lacking in your setup. Listen to it like it was meant to be heard!

:bash::bash::bash::bash::bash:

 

[goldear]

I haven't used an amp with tone controls, or an EQ for over 30 years. And my system sounds so good without any tone controls that I don't miss them even a little bit.

But I do roll tubes inside of my gear, and that is something that you can't really do in the SS realm (except to a limited degree with op-amps).

 

[whoaru99]

I haven't used an amp with tone controls, or an EQ for over 30 years. And my system sounds so good without any tone controls that I don't miss them even a little bit.

Sure, but do you insist the sound is "the way it was meant to be heard" because you don't use tone controls or simply that you enjoy the sound as it is without them? There's a big difference between the two in my book.

 

[goldear]

Sure, but do you insist the sound is "the way it was meant to be heard" because you don't use tone controls or simply that you enjoy the sound as it is without them? There's a big difference between the two in my book.

While I am a purist, I'm not anal on that point as I once was. I realize that mastering engineers master albums to sound certain ways, and that most recordings employ various forms of signal processing at the studio and inside of the mastering lab. My system lets me hear them the way that the mastering engineer meant them to sound (or even a bit better), and it does not sound lacking at all.

Less-serious enthusiasts who hear my system often make comments along the lines of "I can't believe that your system sounds so great without an equalizer". But I personally attribute this to the fact that mediocre gear often needs some extra help to sound decent, but the good stuff usually doesn't require anything more than good speaker placement, and a decent room.

But its all a matter of taste. And whatever floats your boat is fine by me.

 

[whoaru99]

My system lets me hear them the way that the mastering engineer meant them to sound (or even a bit better), and it does not sound lacking at all.

Aside from your room acoustics and that more than likely you don't have the same speakers?

I'm not trying to pick on you, only to further question the point that "hearing it like it is meant to be heard" seems a bone of contention in and of itself. Tone controls or not.

 

[goldear]

Aside from your room acoustics and that more than likely you don't have the same speakers?

I'm not trying to pick on you, only to further question the point that "hearing it like it is meant to be heard" seems a bone of contention in and of itself. Tone controls or not.

My system has relatively flat frequency response. But unlike many lesser systems, it sounds fantastic when run it is run dead flat. And to me that is one of the hallmarks of a really good system. With a good system, a decent room, and good speaker placement, EQ becomes completely unnecessary, and can even detract from the sound.

But I will admit to adding a smidgen of color to my sound as well. But I use tubes to do my coloring. However the sound improvements associated with using a good tube preamp has nothing to with introducing frequency response aberrations into the signal like it does when you use an equalizer.

But if your system needs a little EQ to sound its "best" to your ears, then don't let me stop you!

 

[JBL GUY]

To be clear my comment

"And BTW NJguy, this is a good and very perceptive question"

was with regard to the first part of your question regarding our perception of the change in sound quality when using an equalizer, not only with regard to using an equalizer when using a turntable.