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ESS AMT 1B (Canada) + questions

mythless

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Just saw these this morning, and I think I saw these a couple of months ago too...Not mine but looks interesting after googling them.

http://winnipeg.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-electronics-ESS-AMT-1B-Speakers-Perfect-Condition-Original-Owner-W0QQAdIdZ245463279

Owner is asking $325obo, if those are the picture I wouldn't call them perfect condition with that dent on top of the left speaker grills. Good deal?


Now Magnepan 1.4 or ESS AMT 1B for classical music? Looking to get my Dad a nice pair of speakers for Christmas. He likes a smooth signature. He likes his Sansui speakers (SP-1000).

Cheers!
 
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Good deal, I don't know much about this brand, the left speaker as you pointed out, doesn't look to healthy.
 
That's a good to fair price. It helps that they've refoamed the woofers & passives - but check to make sure a good job was done.

From the pictures, it looks like the grill cloth is coming off of the frame. Not uncommon and can probably be fixed by some glue.

If you don't like them, you can recover your money easily, provided the heil tweeters are working.

They're great speakers, but I'd find some ADS L710 or L810s if your dad like's smooth. AR-3a or KLH5 are some nice smooth speakers too. The heils are these can be called bright.
 
Actually, triple check those surrounds.

The 1b had rubber surrounds, and I've never seen them go bad, so I'm not sure why these would have been replaced. The passives had foam surrounds, which will be bad if not replaced yet.
 
Ive got a pair of Magnepan 1.4's that I recently rebuilt, and I cant really see how one would do much better, although the ESS speakers do have many accolades.

I listen to a lot of piano and trumpet/sax jazz and these magnepans really do a great job. the huge surface area does really well producing tons of sonic energy...like that of a huge soundboard in a piano.

If you're not happy now, go with the ESS's, if you're happy, save your bucks and stick with the magnepans. (maybe add a sub if you're craving sub 150hz tones...)
 
Good deal, I don't know much about this brand, the left speaker as you pointed out, doesn't look to healthy.

That's a good to fair price. It helps that they've refoamed the woofers & passives - but check to make sure a good job was done.

From the pictures, it looks like the grill cloth is coming off of the frame. Not uncommon and can probably be fixed by some glue.

If you don't like them, you can recover your money easily, provided the heil tweeters are working.

They're great speakers, but I'd find some ADS L710 or L810s if your dad like's smooth. AR-3a or KLH5 are some nice smooth speakers too. The heils are these can be called bright.


Thanks for the replies :D

Well, knowing the market here I don't think "recovering" my money is possible, unless I am willing to ship and they look heavy, lol. ADS and JBLs are really expensive here. I think I saw a L100 selling for $550obo and L200 1k. If ESS are bright, I think I might pass, as my Dad doesn't really like over bright speakers. He prefers the SP-1000 over the HPM-60. I would love to hear then as an enthusiast but, I don't want to waste the owners time. But, I guess it "couldn't hurt" lol. I wonder what type of amplifiers are needed to power those beasts.

No thoughts about the MG 1.4? I am currently waiting until wednesday to see if he's sold them to his neighbor before sending in my offers. I've posted a link on them. But here it is again for those who are interested: http://winnipeg.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-electronics-Speakers-by-Magenplaner-Loudspeakers-W0QQAdIdZ243747039 It's cheaper, but coils need to be reglued.
 
I have a pair of AMT-1s (not 1b) in my possession (storing them for a friend, they're hooked up to my Fisher X202) and I have to say that I'm not a fan. I don't get the hype, at least for the particular iteration that I have. Great upper mid/high end. Completely disjointed from the low end, which IMHO, is terrible. I'm sure a bit of work could bring them into the listenable category but I do not like them stock. I find them to be a tweeter looking for a speaker.
 
I have the 1B's, stock, and both the Heil tweets and the woofers sound excellent. Yes, they are VERY detailed, especially the mids and highs, but they do have control knobs in the back to adjust the "brilliance". Make sure those work, too.

And BTW, forget about the covers. They look better naked (check the pic)!
 

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So how do the ESS AMT 1B fair with classical music? And, would an 80wpc be enough to power them or would I need to step up to 100wpc or higher?
 
The AMTs on these speakers --which produce the mids and highs-- are among the very best high-end drivers ever made. Clear and "liquidy" sound.

If they sound harsh or bright, it's because your gear or the recording is that way, and you're used to hearing them through speakers that won't produce all the upper overtones that make them sound that way. (The Heil drivers will reproduce WELL above the range of human hearing; you can put dog whistle sounds through them at 30K+ Hz and watch your dog respond to what you cannot hear...).

They are extremely fast, though: with their "squeezing" motion, they'll push the air out five times more quickly than a regular cone or done driver that simply "pushes" the air. That is why they sound so spine-chillingly realistic at times.

Their speed is also why there is a bit of a disconnect between the big --and much slower-- woofer and those Heils. The crossover point is a little too low for the Heils to work optimally, and the woofer can't sufficiently "keep up". It's hardly noticeable for most listeners, who will love the sound of these speakers, but if you have "audiophile ears", then you may tend to focus on it, and be more pleased with the Heils in a 3-way configuration, with a faster mid (and perhaps a faster woofer, too). The so-called "rock monitors" were made that way, and they are a difficult speaker to fault. Incredibly realistic and "airy" sound reproduction overall, in a league above most of the speakers commonly discussed here.

As for value, you'd get your money back without difficulty, just selling off the AMTs separately. You could then "ewave" the rest of the speaker and sell it locally. (If people could audition the "e'waved" speaker, they'd buy it, too --even though it wouldn't be quite as incredibly realistic on the mids-highs as the original. The driver speeds would actually match better.)

I'd pay the full asking price for just the Heil AMTs, any day of any week, to add them to my slow-growing AMT line arrays. Unfortunately, shipping those heavy suckers all the way to Hong Kong might make that en-economical, so this is NOT an actual offer to buy --that would be against the rules, anyway. But I'm sure there are others around like me, who are closer to you and who would thus pay lower shipping costs; the AMTs are not a hard thing to sell. The AMTs alone usually sell for more than that total speaker price these days online. Locally here in Hong Kong they often sell for about double that price or even more, although usually with a mount (stand) and some kind of adjustable crossover added, so people can put them atop other speakers as a super-tweeter.

Give them a good audition, before giving up on them. Let your ears decide.

You say your Dad likes "smooth" sound... the critical question here is what he'll be driving them with. If his gear tends to sound towards the harsh side, and he is using "smooth" speakers as a kind of filter to remove the harshness (quite possible), then these would not be the best speaker --although they are less harsh in general than some other highly-revealing drivers.

Again, give them an audition; while (thanks to those woofers and the lack of a midrange driver) they aren't perfect, these are fine-sounding speakers, that many owners treasure. They will sound better, to most ears, than almost all the other speakers out there. When new, they were among the most desired speakers in the market.
 
I haven't come across anything I could afford better than my ESS classics, which are similar.

give them a listen.

re-doing the grille cloth is a PITA though, just fyi.
 
The AMTs on these speakers --which produce the mids and highs-- are among the very best high-end drivers ever made. Clear and "liquidy" sound.

If they sound harsh or bright, it's because your gear or the recording is that way, and you're used to hearing them through speakers that won't produce all the upper overtones that make them sound that way. (The Heil drivers will reproduce WELL above the range of human hearing; you can put dog whistle sounds through them at 30K+ Hz and watch your dog respond to what you cannot hear...).

They are extremely fast, though: with their "squeezing" motion, they'll push the air out five times more quickly than a regular cone or done driver that simply "pushes" the air. That is why they sound so spine-chillingly realistic at times.

Their speed is also why there is a bit of a disconnect between the big --and much slower-- woofer and those Heils. The crossover point is a little too low for the Heils to work optimally, and the woofer can't sufficiently "keep up". It's hardly noticeable for most listeners, who will love the sound of these speakers, but if you have "audiophile ears", then you may tend to focus on it, and be more pleased with the Heils in a 3-way configuration, with a faster mid (and perhaps a faster woofer, too). The so-called "rock monitors" were made that way, and they are a difficult speaker to fault. Incredibly realistic and "airy" sound reproduction overall, in a league above most of the speakers commonly discussed here.

As for value, you'd get your money back without difficulty, just selling off the AMTs separately. You could then "ewave" the rest of the speaker and sell it locally. (If people could audition the "e'waved" speaker, they'd buy it, too --even though it wouldn't be quite as incredibly realistic on the mids-highs as the original. The driver speeds would actually match better.)

I'd pay the full asking price for just the Heil AMTs, any day of any week, to add them to my slow-growing AMT line arrays. Unfortunately, shipping those heavy suckers all the way to Hong Kong might make that en-economical, so this is NOT an actual offer to buy --that would be against the rules, anyway. But I'm sure there are others around like me, who are closer to you and who would thus pay lower shipping costs; the AMTs are not a hard thing to sell. The AMTs alone usually sell for more than that total speaker price these days online. Locally here in Hong Kong they often sell for about double that price or even more, although usually with a mount (stand) and some kind of adjustable crossover added, so people can put them atop other speakers as a super-tweeter.

Give them a good audition, before giving up on them. Let your ears decide.

You say your Dad likes "smooth" sound... the critical question here is what he'll be driving them with. If his gear tends to sound towards the harsh side, and he is using "smooth" speakers as a kind of filter to remove the harshness (quite possible), then these would not be the best speaker --although they are less harsh in general than some other highly-revealing drivers.

Again, give them an audition; while (thanks to those woofers and the lack of a midrange driver) they aren't perfect, these are fine-sounding speakers, that many owners treasure. They will sound better, to most ears, than almost all the other speakers out there. When new, they were among the most desired speakers in the market.

Wow, I thank you for your informative reply, it's quite a bit to take in. I will have to re-read the post multiple times before it sinks in.

My current equipment are as follows besides my turntables. It will either be power by the HK PM660 (80wpc) or the Rotel RA812+Sony TA1150 (roughly 75wpc) but these two are undergoing surgery. Now, I been trying to sell off my other gear to fund for a Mitsubishi DA-A30+P30 combo (100wpc) but it cost the same as these ESS speakers because I was thinking about the Magnepans initially. Especially if I were to get the MG 1.4 for a good price.

I know that the PM660 and probably the Mitsu are pretty neutral to semi bright sounding amplifiers, they are neither dark or warm. Rotel and Sony might be a bit softer and warmer.

I haven't come across anything I could afford better than my ESS classics, which are similar.

give them a listen.

re-doing the grille cloth is a PITA though, just fyi.

Hrmm, that might of a pain eh? Why did these speakers have to come up on the market! I was quite gun-ho about the MG 1.4, especially after hear them.

The things I do for my Dad, get him new feet for his turntable, talking to a craftsmen to build a rack for his CD/LP collection, and now this! I am actually upgrading the gear I bought him besides the PL-560, thought it would be nice after working so hard this year. New amp and speakers, I hope my Dad appreciates this!

I guess the consensus is to give them a listen. Guess more play time for me, and more information to learn. This site and Head-Fi makes this audio hobby both fun and poor, lol.
 
oh, and another consensus is that (from another thread on ESS speakers) they really benefit from a recap in the crossover.

many folks opinion is that they used subpar parts in the crossover.
hell, mine had caps from different manufacturers from one speaker to the next.

I went with caps from solen, but dayton might be a better choice.
 
oh, and another consensus is that (from another thread on ESS speakers) they really benefit from a recap in the crossover.

many folks opinion is that they used subpar parts in the crossover.
hell, mine had caps from different manufacturers from one speaker to the next.

I went with caps from solen, but dayton might be a better choice.

I hope replacing capacitors is a semi easy job. Haha, regardless of what speaker I get, I don't think I will have enough to pay for a professional.
 
I hope replacing capacitors is a semi easy job. Haha, regardless of what speaker I get, I don't think I will have enough to pay for a professional.

not too hard if you are handy with a soldering iron.

you need to take the woofer or passive out, maybe even both, desolder the original caps, solder in the new ones.
 
Well, I gave the ESS AMT 1B owner a call, the guy is about 1 hour out of the city limits, and the speakers are in storage. He says they're in working order but I think I might pass considering my Dad now wants to be involved in hearing his "gift" and him having a tight scheduling with his work might be difficult. And, having small car doesn't help lugging them back either lol, initially I was thinking picking them up one at a time, since I am assuming they're pretty big.
 
They are a excellent speaker IMHO for any type of music. Arkay did a eloquent job of describing the Heil.
The AMT3's are the best of the bunch-but those are very good speakers-and a good price.
They can benefit from a recap, and also a woofer magnet recharge, which will bring the bass output back up.
A few people that don't like them mistake the extreme detail for brightness-and if the woofers need a recharge-this can exaggerate this.
Think of the AMTS as a high performance machine-sometime these need some work. You wouldn't by a 30 year old sports car and not expect to do some work.
Some people discount them, give up, and part them out, which is a shame.
If they were willing to give them a bit of work (there is lot's of info here-I have a few threads on my AMT3's-ronc, rocky5656, cactusbob, AMT, among others) they would be rewarded with sound no other speaker can touch-including the magnepans-the dynamics and realisitc soundstage are amazing-nothing else like them.
The AMT1b's can be improved by using the crossover values in the AMT1d
If you are willing to give them a try, and some work as well- I can guarantee your father and you will love them.
 
I have a pair of AMT-1s (not 1b) in my possession (storing them for a friend, they're hooked up to my Fisher X202) and I have to say that I'm not a fan. I don't get the hype, at least for the particular iteration that I have. Great upper mid/high end. Completely disjointed from the low end, which IMHO, is terrible. I'm sure a bit of work could bring them into the listenable category but I do not like them stock. I find them to be a tweeter looking for a speaker.

Ther is lot's of info here on these speakers.
I would suggest using the values/crossover for the AMT1d-this was a significant improvement-integrating the woofer and tweeter.
The AMT uses a transition/mid driver to eliminate this problem.
Also a woofer recharge can help-or perhaps-like I did in my AMT3's, substituting the OCS recommended Eminence 1040SF.
So equipped, my AMT3's are true world beaters-they are one of the finest speakers I have heard-and that's a few for sure.
These won't be in the same league as the AMT3's-but should come very close with the right upgrades.
Don't give up on them (opps-well your friend)-if I can help-let me know-a little work and updating and you will surely be happy with these.
 
I know he'd probably like them, but going outside of the city can be tough, his job keeps him busy. Those been on the market twice already, so I might have another chance when spring comes, the roads up here can be pretty bad.
 
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