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ESS AMT1a sound thin midrange and bass

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BlueMarblePA

Member
I am new to ESS, and I am new to audiophile world.
I bought these original AMT1a and am now comparing A/B to Klipsch KG4, and I can definitely hear the difference between horns and Heil in the tweeter range.
The problem is that the ESS is very very thin in the midrange and bass. I am not terribly surprised by the lacking bass, but the midrange weakness makes me not want to listen to them.

Should I just sell the AMT1a, or is there a simple fix? crossovers?

Prior owner did tell me that he replaced the passive radiators in the back.
 
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Be sure that the woofers are correct, the surrounds correct and not stiff, passives also correct as these are the things that make bass, midbass, and some of the midrange. It all has to be in correct condition or the tuning is off.

If all of this is correct be sure that they're placed correctly as this is another thing that will enhance bass.

Then you can of course look at crossovers.
 
SaturationPt said:
Be sure that the woofers are correct, the surrounds correct and not stiff, passives also correct as these are the things that make bass, midbass, and some of the midrange. It all has to be in correct condition or the tuning is off.

If all of this is correct be sure that they're placed correctly as this is another thing that will enhance bass.

Then you can of course look at crossovers.
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Thank you for the reply. I will look at them more closely, and I will try to upload some pictures.
 
kfa888 said:
Make sure the drivers polarity are correct on both speakers. As someone had them apart they may have wire one out of phase which can cause these issues you describe.
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Sorry for this newbie reply, but if I just switch the black and red speaker wire from the amplifier, will this help me to determine if this is the problem. Or do I have to disassemble the innards of the speaker to determine if this is the case?
 
BlueMarblePA said:
Sorry for this newbie reply, but if I just switch the black and red speaker wire from the amplifier, will this help me to determine if this is the problem. Or do I have to disassemble the innards of the speaker to determine if this is the case?
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If the woofer is out of phase with the AMT then you need to swap the wires on just the woofer. Fortunately removing the woofer is pretty straightforward and hard to mess up. Just remove the screws holding it in place, and carefully remove it with either a flat screwdriver or stiff putty knife. Then swap the two wires that connect to backside of the woofer.
 
BlueMarblePA said:
Sorry for this newbie reply, but if I just switch the black and red speaker wire from the amplifier, will this help me to determine if this is the problem. Or do I have to disassemble the innards of the speaker to determine if this is the case?
Click to expand...

Yes it will.

If the woofer is out of phase with the other woofer causing your bass problem, a simple (temporary) swap of the wires from your amp to one speaker will return the bass and let you know that you need to dive into the speaker wiring further.
 
BlueMarblePA said:
I am new to ESS, and I am new to audiophile world.
I bought these original AMT1a and am now comparing A/B to Klipsch KG4, and I can definitely hear the difference between horns and Heil in the tweeter range.
The problem is that the ESS is very very thin in the midrange and bass. I am not terribly surprised by the lacking bass, but the midrange weakness makes me not want to listen to them.

Should I just sell the AMT1a, or is there a simple fix? crossovers?

Prior owner did tell me that he replaced the passive radiators in the back.
Click to expand...
Mediocre home theater receivers need not apply. You need really high current amplification for them to sound their best. These should blow Klipsch KG4s completely out of the water with proper amplification. I had Klipsch KG4s and they don't compare.
 
SleeperSupra said:
Mediocre home theater receivers need not apply. You need really high current amplification for them to sound their best. These should blow Klipsch KG4s completely out of the water with proper amplification. I had Klipsch KG4s and they don't compare.
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I am powering it with a Sansui AU-9900a. I think it has 80Watts. I have it turned about 1/4 to 1/3 of full volume.
KG4 is definitely more muddy in the treble tweeter range, and the bass can be a bit floor boomy, but maybe because my KG4 is standing directly on hardwood floor with just the integreated two inch riser.
 
I did remove one of the woofers, and I switched polarity. This actually did improve some of the imaging, but the midrange and bass is still pretty weak. I have to turn up the tone controls all the way to get a useable sound.
I just spoke to Rick at ESS, and he recommends sending in the crossovers as a first step.
I am going to try that.
 
Yeah, you should restore / upgrade the crossovers and you really need about 200 - 250 watts per channel of high current power to optimize those speakers.
 
I keep hearing these massive power requirements, and yet my AMT Monitors sound great on 50wpc tubes and I hear/feel no difference in dynamics nor impact on my 300wpc Solid-State. 25W peaks on the meters seems to be about as much as I can listen to for as much as a single song.

Are the 1As that much more needy with the same drivers?
 
SaturationPt said:
I keep hearing these massive power requirements, and yet my AMT Monitors sound great on 50wpc tubes and I hear/feel no difference in dynamics nor impact on my 300wpc Solid-State. 25W peaks on the meters seems to be about as much as I can listen to for as much as a single song.

Are the 1As that much more needy with the same drivers?
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Tube amplification sounds much more powerful than the same wattage of solid state amplification.
 
Years ago when I first got my ESS AMT 1B speakers I owned a Yamaha CR 2020 that was 100 watts per channel and it sounded really thin and weak on my speakers. I went to a high current Soundcraftsmen amplifier and it made all the difference in the world.
 
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SleeperSupra said:
Tube amplification sounds much more powerful than the same wattage of solid state amplification.
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Pardon me, but bullshit. When I had my McIntosh MC2505-2 (72WPC) the ESSs were just a happy and dynamic as they are on my MC240, and on the 2255 they were also happy. The meters on them seldom get above 25W set in peak mode, the thought that they're somehow needing 250W for normal listening levels just doesn't make sense.

I keep hearing this story that xx tube watts are more powerful than xx solid-state watts. How Ohm's Law doesn't apply to tubes I don't know, but I own and have owned many tube and SS amplifiers and a watt is a watt. When you get to high-voltage peaks and need reserve capacity for the dynamics there is only so much current that a tube (in this example 6L6GCs) can pass, and only so much power that is stored in the power supply, whichever gives up first limits the output.

Now if you want to discuss the different types of distortion that are typical tube vs ss I agree that there's a good conversation there. Regardless, the ESS AMT series just doesn't dip that low in impedance that it needs a really high-current amplifier, if you're 4 Ohm stable you will be fine.

My McIntosh XRT20s OTOH, are hungry, as were my PSB Stratus Gold which dipped to 2 Ohms or below at some frequencies, then the concern isn't as much wattage as it is stability at low impedance.
 
SaturationPt said:
I keep hearing this story that xx tube watts are more powerful than xx solid-state watts. How Ohm's Law doesn't apply to tubes I don't know, but I own and have owned many tube and SS amplifiers and a watt is a watt.
Click to expand...


I don't know that it is so much a matter of power, but of damping factor, of which tube equipment is much poorer than solid state.

A lower damping factor puts less "control" on the woofer so the cone is freer to "flop around" in and out to a further excursion with additional ringing, and these of course would add a boost in volume at lower frequencies as opposed to a very tightly controlled cone. :idea:
 
I've run my ESS AMT 1a's with a Kyocera A710 integrated "100wpc", Sansui BA3000 amp "170wpc", Sansui AU-717 integrated "85wpc" and they have all sounded wonderful to me. Need to try it with my 60wpc Audio Research tube amp and see what happens. Bass will probably suffer some I'm guessing.
 
SaturationPt said:
Pardon me, but bullshit. When I had my McIntosh MC2505-2 (72WPC) the ESSs were just a happy and dynamic as they are on my MC240, and on the 2255 they were also happy. The meters on them seldom get above 25W set in peak mode, the thought that they're somehow needing 250W for normal listening levels just doesn't make sense.

I keep hearing this story that xx tube watts are more powerful than xx solid-state watts. How Ohm's Law doesn't apply to tubes I don't know, but I own and have owned many tube and SS amplifiers and a watt is a watt. When you get to high-voltage peaks and need reserve capacity for the dynamics there is only so much current that a tube (in this example 6L6GCs) can pass, and only so much power that is stored in the power supply, whichever gives up first limits the output.

Now if you want to discuss the different types of distortion that are typical tube vs ss I agree that there's a good conversation there. Regardless, the ESS AMT series just doesn't dip that low in impedance that it needs a really high-current amplifier, if you're 4 Ohm stable you will be fine.

My McIntosh XRT20s OTOH, are hungry, as were my PSB Stratus Gold which dipped to 2 Ohms or below at some frequencies, then the concern isn't as much wattage as it is stability at low impedance.
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No need to get nasty about it. Are you a violent person? You seem like you might be...

We were just having a conversation here.
 
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I know the speakers are very easy load to drive, however, they do sound better on my Soundcraftsmen gear than they did on the Yamaha. On the Yamaha, they sounded thin and bright. They sound warm and full with the Soundcraftsmen gear. I haven't had a whole lot of experience with tube gear but I had a friend bring over a small low wattage Scott tube amp and I thought they sounded really good on the tube amp also.
 
SleeperSupra said:
No need to get nasty about it. Are you a violent person? You seem like you might be...

We were just having a conversation here.
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Thanks for the personal attack, a veiled one at that, and no, just calling "bullshit" on something that is regularly claimed and debated is hardly nasty nor an indicator of a violent person.

On an open / discussion forum you need to be able to handle criticism with a little less hostility.
 
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