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ess heils can i just them alone in a new cabinet with a xover and use them as additional front speakers
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Nope.
So - what do you mean by "ESS Heils" Are you referring to just the HiFreq drivers, or a complete Heil speaker with woofers & the ESS drivers?
Below shows a pair of Heil Air Motion Transducers with a simple HighPass network used as superTweeters with a pair of Altec Valencias.
You really need at least woofers with the Heils to get a full range sound.
(These Heils had no bass of their own)
(Moved from AK New Format thread since the post has nothing to do with the AK forum software)
So - what do you mean by "ESS Heils" Are you referring to just the HiFreq drivers, or a complete Heil speaker with woofers & the ESS drivers?
Below shows a pair of Heil Air Motion Transducers with a simple HighPass network used as superTweeters with a pair of Altec Valencias.
You really need at least woofers with the Heils to get a full range sound.
(These Heils had no bass of their own)
(Moved from AK New Format thread since the post has nothing to do with the AK forum software)
Are those terminals a modification, or did Heil change them from the awful little red button versions at some point?
I have two pairs, both with the red press-button terminals.
Also curious as to how you mounted those? I've been toying with different ideas for mounting them without the bolts going into the cabinet they are sitting on.
Mine currently just rest on top of the main speakers, sans bolts.
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RVT1K
Super Member
I've always been intrigued by those. Did you use them as replacements for original drivers or were they integrated into the design? And where are you crossing them over?
In my current arrangement the AMTs serve as additional tweeters. Crossed over at 9kHz, 1st order. Also padded a bit.
I used a bunch of quick-connects to experiment with different crossover cap and resistor values until settling on a final version. I wanted to pull up the slightly recessed upper midrange of the main speakers (hence the first order x-over) and add some air/spaciousness at the higher frequencies.
It's my understanding that they can be crossed over as low as 800Hz.
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The acrylic plates were cut on a laser table that I no longer have access too. But the file would translate to 3D printing simply by adding the
Z" coordinate (desired thickness).
I also have files for flares (top and bottom, left/right. But to make the most out of Heils:
I'm Fixing a Hole/Heil...
Z" coordinate (desired thickness).
I also have files for flares (top and bottom, left/right. But to make the most out of Heils:
I'm Fixing a Hole/Heil...
I want to incorporate just the heils as additional front speakers.
I have a pair of Paradigm studio 60 v4 as main front speakers now , they are bi amped to my Denon Avr 2807 using the rear surround channel and are working fine. I washoping somehow to add the heils as additional front speakers somehow, it how etc?
I just purchased but not connected SVS 3000 micro sub, please advise
I would just like to add them as additional front speakers, just need them for 2k and up but not sure how to do etc etc
Well, you'll need to get the same amplified signal to the tweeter that's going to your main speakers. And you'll need a way to control the AMT's output level relative to the other speakers. And you'll need a high pass filter. Simplest is 1st order, but note that tweeter will only be down by 6dB at 1000Hz (assuming 2000Hz x-over). The slope will be twice as steep with a second order filter.
A 20uf cap in series should be about right for a 1st order x-over, but you may want to experiment. For control of output level, an L-pad would do the job. But you'll need to figure out some way to mount it and connect it (like the nice little wooden box in the pic of the AMT in an earlier post, which probably contains the filter as well). And you will need 4 ohm L-pads, which are pricey and difficult to find.
Alternatively, you can experiment with various value resistors (in series, same as the capacitor) to get the "right" output level. The sensitivity of the AMT is fairly high, and without padding it with either an L-pad (an adjustable solution) or a resistor in series (a fixed solution), it is likely that the output from the AMT will be much too loud relative to your other speakers.
You'll also need to determine how you are going to mount the ATM's. They need to be around ear height, give or take. Mine just sit on top of my main speakers, without the bolts. But because the bolts add structural integrity to the housing, I will be adding a piece of 1x3 to act as a "base". The bolts will go through it and into the ATM housing, with nuts on top instead of at the bottom. Otherwise the base would need to be almost twice as thick.
I'm sure someone with much more expertise will be along soon with more/better info.
A 20uf cap in series should be about right for a 1st order x-over, but you may want to experiment. For control of output level, an L-pad would do the job. But you'll need to figure out some way to mount it and connect it (like the nice little wooden box in the pic of the AMT in an earlier post, which probably contains the filter as well). And you will need 4 ohm L-pads, which are pricey and difficult to find.
Alternatively, you can experiment with various value resistors (in series, same as the capacitor) to get the "right" output level. The sensitivity of the AMT is fairly high, and without padding it with either an L-pad (an adjustable solution) or a resistor in series (a fixed solution), it is likely that the output from the AMT will be much too loud relative to your other speakers.
You'll also need to determine how you are going to mount the ATM's. They need to be around ear height, give or take. Mine just sit on top of my main speakers, without the bolts. But because the bolts add structural integrity to the housing, I will be adding a piece of 1x3 to act as a "base". The bolts will go through it and into the ATM housing, with nuts on top instead of at the bottom. Otherwise the base would need to be almost twice as thick.
I'm sure someone with much more expertise will be along soon with more/better info.
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Appreciate your technical detailed help, geez you are way ahead of my knowledge. So it not that
Now to find out what lpads are. So if I do get it going it should be worth the improved sound?
I do like my Paradymn studio v4 60 and with the new svs micro 3000. Appreciate the help
Now to find out what lpads are. So if I do get it going it should be worth the improved sound?
I do like my Paradymn studio v4 60 and with the new svs micro 3000. Appreciate the help
I can't say whether you would find boosting the mid and high frequency output to be an improvement or not. We all have different preferences.
That said, your main speakers seem to be quite capable, so I'm surprised you feel the need for a boost, especially across so much of their range.
Most of the examples I've seen of using the AMTs as an adjunct are crossed over much higher. More of a supertweeter kind of thing, to add some sparkle/air at the higher frequencies.
I'm curious to know why you're considering adding the AMTs? What's your goal? What problem are you trying to solve?
Regarding L-Pads; think of them as volume controls. The AMTs have a high sensitivity spec, and are very likely to be notably louder than your main speakers when fed the same signal, so you need to be able to turn them down to blend with the mains rather than overwhelm them. Of course, the volume knob on your amplifier will still serve as the "master" volume control.
As I mentioned earlier, the alternative is to just put a resistor in line with the AMT. You would probably have to experiment to find the value that gives you the "right" reduction in output. This is not as good of a solution from a technical standpoint, because there will be some variance in the crossover point as you change the volume on your amplifier. But in your planned use, this is much less of a concern than it would be if incorporating the AMT as the tweeter in a full-range speaker system. And, it's considerably less costly.than using L-pads.
I would guess that you'd want a resistance of between 4 and 12 ohms. While 10W rated resistors might be ok, I think 20W would be safer given how low you intend to cross them over.
That said, your main speakers seem to be quite capable, so I'm surprised you feel the need for a boost, especially across so much of their range.
Most of the examples I've seen of using the AMTs as an adjunct are crossed over much higher. More of a supertweeter kind of thing, to add some sparkle/air at the higher frequencies.
I'm curious to know why you're considering adding the AMTs? What's your goal? What problem are you trying to solve?
Regarding L-Pads; think of them as volume controls. The AMTs have a high sensitivity spec, and are very likely to be notably louder than your main speakers when fed the same signal, so you need to be able to turn them down to blend with the mains rather than overwhelm them. Of course, the volume knob on your amplifier will still serve as the "master" volume control.
As I mentioned earlier, the alternative is to just put a resistor in line with the AMT. You would probably have to experiment to find the value that gives you the "right" reduction in output. This is not as good of a solution from a technical standpoint, because there will be some variance in the crossover point as you change the volume on your amplifier. But in your planned use, this is much less of a concern than it would be if incorporating the AMT as the tweeter in a full-range speaker system. And, it's considerably less costly.than using L-pads.
I would guess that you'd want a resistance of between 4 and 12 ohms. While 10W rated resistors might be ok, I think 20W would be safer given how low you intend to cross them over.
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BilboBaggins
Addicted Member
The Heils have a Response of: 800Hz - 20kHz
That means it covers the High Frequency Range down to the middle of the Mid Range. On their own, they would sound thin lower down. These are extremely good transducers, but they are not full range speakers.
That means it covers the High Frequency Range down to the middle of the Mid Range. On their own, they would sound thin lower down. These are extremely good transducers, but they are not full range speakers.
In re-reading your posts, I see you said that you're bi-amping your mains with the rear-channel outputs (and assumedly the front channel outputs). I don't know much about AVRs, but this doesn't make sense to me. The rear channels have different content than the fronts; they are nowhere close to a full range signal. If you've connected the upper frequency portion of the Paradigm crossovers to the rear channels, it's no surprise that you would find the midrange and higher frequencies lacking!
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Certainly can be on an SACD, DVD-Audio, or Blu-Ray audio.
I have an older 7.1 system setup with my Integra Surround Preamp/processor, discrete power amps and quality speakers.
I have a number of discs with full range sound on side, rear and center channels, as well as front mains.
If you do not have full range sound on all of your channels, you are not using a properly working Surround sound system.
I have a number of discs with full range sound on side, rear and center channels, as well as front mains.
If you do not have full range sound on all of your channels, you are not using a properly working Surround sound system.
