• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

ESS Transar 5 Anyone?

Honestly... I haven't installed the new surrounds yet! I am bad and I am sorry. (You helped me get them and I still appreciate that so much!) I was a bit afraid to do so on my only mains at the time, but now I have done a few paper woofers so I feel a lot more confident. I hope to do so soon, but since everything has been working with my badly doped ones (flowable silicone on the original rubbers) I haven't been in a hurry. I'll let you know how it sounds when I am done for sure!

As for the active biamp, here is what I can say. That speaker sounds very good as is - don't get me wrong, and if you had no EQ I would say compare one side by side before committing. They do sound different; the stock crossover is 'smoother'. In my case, my receiver has Audyssey, which is a very power DSP which does complex room correction, including FIR filters which correct frequency response issues. This 'room correction' is really speaker correction in many cases, and in this case in particular. If you had a DCX, miniDSP or other crossover that allowed EQ or other more powerful corrections, then that would be fantastic. This way you get not only the benefits below, but also can work out any frequency response issues that the stock crossover does.

What biamping did was apply the amplifiers damping factor directly to the drivers. I used a powerful pro amp with an obscene damping factor of around 500. While this did slightly dampen the bass, that overall was a very good thing - a common complaint about this speaker, which I can see with certain music, is that the crossover point between the large 12" woofer and the Heil can be tricky at times. This is almost completely gone when bi-amped (I would have said completely but I have AMT3's now and understand the difference). Those woofers are so clear... it's amazing. And with good power behind them, go really deep. And with the crossover + amps controlling the driver better, it's really great. That combo, with the woofer + Heil becomes really well controlled and so so clear. I did have to bias the speaker towards the woofer a bit to get the calibration tool to do what I wanted it to, but for non-Audyssey users, it wasn't that difficult to get right by ear.

Since my AMT3s I have installed the original crossovers again. I have a limited number of amps and crossovers, sadly. ;) AMT3s rock triamp'd, and sound Really Powerful. It's a very different voicing, though.

IBJamon
 
Nice review, and very helpful. I agree the AMT3's by themselves solve the large woofer Heil integration-the transition driver-and why the new ESS ignores this is beyond me-really.
In the near future I will be starting a new post on my Super AMT3's. A slightly different crossover from stock-non stock transition driver, as well as woofers.
I have spent countless hours/days/weeks trying to fine tune the stock AMT3 enclosure to non stock woofers.
Those stock drivers are actually very good, despite some peoples thought's and work pretty well with the stock enclosure and damping.
The main reasoning in wanting to go non-stock is to increase efficiency; increase the abilty to play louder and cleaner, and reduce woofer compression and thus distortion. This is particuliarly true if you have a large 200wpc+ amp, and like to listen to above average "loud" volumes at times.
The main culprit is the small 2.5" port (even to some extent with the stock woofer but only at very high volumes). This single port causes a lot of turbulence and compression with non stock woofers. In fact after a few measurments, the air speed in this signle port is off the charts, so to speak, and something you need to avoid if you want the best sound these woofers can deliver.
Thus is you are going this route-you have to be willing to modify your AMT3 cabinet. This means drilling holes to add larger port(s). Ideally 2x 4" ports should be used, but the size of the AMT3 cabinet, well that's pushing it, not to mention weaking the cabinet walls. If you go this route you would need to add some addition bracing.
I found the P.E. 3" ABS tubes work great, are inexpensive, and need only a 3 3/8" hole to work. I may adopt a flare, but for now it seems to work fine.
However using 2x 3" ports seem to be the best compromise, and get the port air speed down to levels that the distorion and compression, and "huffing" disappears.
The best location for these, is in the rear, just below the mid tubes. This will mean you will have to move the speakers off the wall some, but 6 inches seems fine. The front baffle, in stock form, is not a good location unless you add a second board, due to the close proximity between the woofer openings and midtube opening.
I didn't want to deal with this major under taking, so I choose the rear. This should work fine with the stock crossover board.
With my Supers, and the non stock board, I had to scratch my original giant board, in favor of a 2 piece board-the switch/input/fuse plate with a small board containg the resisitors, and a secondary board mounted to the side, containing the coils and caps.
From my inital testing, I have rough near field response of around 94.82 spl from the woofers-with a smooth drop off with a realistic response down to 34 hz (were it reaches the woofers X-max), and a fairly smooth step response, and none of those annoying bass doubling artifacts-just like the stock woofers-only better!:thmbsp:
I am still playing with the port lengths and damping amounts, but the port sizes are really centering on 3"x 6.9L
This all working off a old stock crossover with old caps I'm using as a "mule" for now-till I get the hard wired units up and going.
I will be posting a scan of this for review before I wire it up-just to make sure I didn't miss something in the translation. 2+ pairs of eyes are certainly better then one pair.
Anyhow-this is slowly coming together, and I'm now glad I took the time to really get things figured out, as it really seems to be paying off.
I have quite a few pictures to post-most I need to get digitized since the old Sony camra died.
Anyway-hopefully it will be a interesting read even for those who don't want to go to these lengths to "Superize" your AMT3's-, or perhaps you could just upgrade a few things-step by step/etc.
 
Last edited:
Well according to Audyssey's frequency response chart, there are some peaks that the stock crossovers likely correct, around the crossover point in particular. As I said, it's a 'smoother' sound with the stock crossovers. On the other hand, it's fantastically dynamic with the active method. I think this is a result of the fantastic efficiency you get out of those drivers when driven directly. I have come to realize that at least for me, that dynamics seem to matter more than flat frequency response for musical enjoyment/emotional involvement. When the kick drum leaps out at you, etc. that's where it's at. Active does this really well.

IBJamon
 
IBJamon said:
Well according to Audyssey's frequency response chart, there are some peaks that the stock crossovers likely correct, around the crossover point in particular. As I said, it's a 'smoother' sound with the stock crossovers. On the other hand, it's fantastically dynamic with the active method. I think this is a result of the fantastic efficiency you get out of those drivers when driven directly. I have come to realize that at least for me, that dynamics seem to matter more than flat frequency response for musical enjoyment/emotional involvement. When the kick drum leaps out at you, etc. that's where it's at. Active does this really well.

IBJamon
Click to expand...

Sure some drivers have some peaks that need to be corrected. The early 4 coil AMT3's used a Zobel on the 4ohm woofers.
The later 3 coil crossover (likes your models) doesn't use a notch filter, or Zobel, so it wholly relies on the drivers smooth drop off in the lower regions (and a big part why modern woofer matching is challenging).
Personally I prefer the sound of the Zobleless 3 coil crossover.
They really have a smooth response with no audible peaks or artifacts.
Many response peaks are because of the listening room and it's interaction, and I would imagine this is what your eq is "hearing", unless your are doing a near field measurment. Compression at higher levels is really their only failing IMHO-and for many would never be a problem. The occasionaly "overly warm" character is really a matter of taste-I enjoy it -to a point. Alot of this is due to the Alnico magnets needing a recharge.
ESS really did a good job with those woofers in the AMT3's. MY "Supers" are a attempt to move them up a level-which really has been fairly difficult. A testiment to the original design. The added bass clarity and lack of compression changes the voicing-but they still retain the full bass sound of paper cone woofers, without a overly warm character, or the "snap" of many HT speakers I have heard of late.

IMHO these non stock woofers seem a excellent match with the AMT Heil, and Audax HM130CO. Luckily this added clarity is not at the expense of smoothness, or listening fatigue. The key to this upgrade is finding drivers of high sensitivety-no slow drivers here, and almost as important,-drivers that have a smooth tight response, no rising response in the midbass region, and with smooth dropoffs- enabling them to work well with the stock AMT3 crossover specs, and gradual roll offs. Not a easy task with most modern drivers I am finding, as you usually get one with out the other. Not to mention the enclosure size constriants.
I agree with the right amps, and associated equipment the sheer dynamics and musicality of the AMT3's is hard to beat!!:music:
 
Last edited:
ESS doesn't go on to produce intelligent designs for obvious reasons.

Or, don't you guys read my posts? :D

You've seen what they have actually produced for the last 30yrs as being nothing more than duplications of everything available as of 1982, right! And in 1982 the 'flagship' was no longer what was popular but what made dollars and cents. Building a complicated dividing network and coupling it with several drivers for good freq separation / softer overlap was costly. While i don't agree with the approach in theory, i do understand it. Hands off is one thing and hands on is another altogether. ;)

Both passive networks on the 3 take advantage of off-axis presentation on the amt and it's why bothering to shunt the woofer and then shunt the tweeter in the later model that makes the biggest difference really. I don't think i know anyone who will voluntarily select the soft position on that model so... does anyone actually do that? No, i'm thinking. It's not for us to compile thoughts like that anymore though, IBJamon is going active now and i don't see him going back.
 
Hey, you say that as though it's bad! :D Like all things, it's a learning experience, and it's fun to boot. There may come a time where my environment can't support so many amps, and if that happens, who knows, I may go back. Alternatively, if I upgrade to a DSP crossover it may help me or others to model the original crossover to see how close it can sound. That could be very useful for learning if not other reasons.

Actually I have a great interest in all things ESS so the more there is to learn the better off we are! That's my opinion anyway. :)

IBJamon
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom