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EV S15-3's, Parasound 2100, and Crown XLS1502......thoughts?

82smithtown

82smithtown

270 db = Perfect
Happy Holidays all!

These EV's were my late fathers and I've tried at least six receivers of varying age/wattage/brand as well as a Yamaha integrated, and nothing seems to get those 15's making the noise their size suggests they should.

I had the x-overs rebuilt with all totl caps and such, which helped greatly with 600hz+, and have ordered new phenolic diaphrams for the ST350's, but getting those woofers hitting kick drums like I want seems impossible!

They're insanely efficient so I know I don't NEEED the wattage, but having tried everything I'm thinking bountiful headroom is the only option remaining.

Woofers can't quite go bad, right? The same Yamaha AS301 that makes my recapped Klipsch Forte 1's shake the shingles off the roof really isn't anything to write home about when pushing the EV's, even with the bass eq cranked.

What does everyone think of the proposed Parasound/Crown setup?

Could the EVM15L woofers be the problem?

Cheers!
 
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Did you try EQ? Why the new diaphragms for the tweeters? Are they blown? New diaphragms suck, unfortunately, for these. Unless they're new old stock EV diaphragms. I'd keep the old ones in there.
 
Along the equalization line, you could always temp in a receiver with Audyssey room (actually speaker) correction software. This would show what the speakers/crossover/room are capable of. Then you can decide where to go from there. Also, what gives you the idea that the speakers are (or were) capable of the performance you seem to believe they should exhibit? Memory, other AKers, etc.?
 
Yeah, even with things equalized I'm not getting what I feel I should.

New diaphrams because I assumed just like my Klipsch, early 80's Phenolic diaphrams would be largely out of spec? It made a massive difference with them so I figured it wouldn't hurt with high hits and imaging on the EV's. Especially since they're only spec'd to 16k stock; they need all the highs they can get. Red light on the diaphrams?

Memory. Back in the days of using them for DJing when I was younger, I had a mixer "preamp" before the amplifier, and having that second gain of bass would let those things punch holes in your chest.
 
The speakers specs say usable low end is 50Hz, so they actually probably start rolling off some above that.

Pro audio speakers generally trade low bass for sensitivity. It could be your expectations for bass from this type of speaker exceeds the design intent, despite being 15" woofer. Should be able to get some snap out of them but rumbling bass may not be in the cards.

You've checked the obvious like the wiring from amp to speakers and the drivers are connected in same polarity, yes?
 
That may be it? But as said above, when I DJed with them they had low-hits galore (maybe not to a bass head, but to me) I'm not expecting them to dip into the 30's like projected from my Forte's, but right now there's seemingly nothing much under 110hz. Lo and behold, none of the sources I've tried have had more than 80 advertised watts/ch.

All connections are fine and polarity is kosher.
 
82smithtown said:
That may be it? But as said above, when I DJed with them they had low-hits galore (maybe not to a bass head, but to me) I'm not expecting them to dip into the 30's like projected from my Forte's, but right now there's seemingly nothing much under 110hz. Lo and behold, none of the sources I've tried have had more than 80 advertised watts/ch.

All connections are fine and polarity is kosher.
Click to expand...

Do I take, then, from your previous post about DJing, there were double/stacked bass knobs?

Whereby you could basically dial up twice as much bass boost as one bass control normally facilitates?
 
I'd cancel the diaphragm order. They suck. I tried them. Same brand, from simply speakers. Compared them to old EV ones, and they weren't nearly as clear.
 
whoaru99 said:
Do I take, then, from your previous post about DJing, there were double/stacked bass knobs?

Whereby you could basically dial up twice as much bass boost as one bass control normally facilitates?
Click to expand...

Yes, *but* I used to have to run with bass down in the negatives on the amp and no more than 50% bass gain on the mixer when at accentuated levels (to play it safe because they were really hitting at that point) which is why I assumed I needed more wattage (as that was a 100w/ch amp that was probably actually pushing close to that to the speakers when rolling at an event). Not the case?
 
absolve2525 said:
I'd cancel the diaphragm order. They suck. I tried them. Same brand, from simply speakers. Compared them to old EV ones, and they weren't nearly as clear.
Click to expand...

Damn. Will do. I was excited! Do these ST350 phenolics go out if spec as badly as Klipsch? I'm worried that I'm losing highs which have gradually tapered off since the 90's....nothing VERY noticeable, but my Klipsch and JBL's kill them in the high section.

Did you ever find or hear of a suitable replacement?
 
Could be a matter of room acoustics too.

If the 100W and 80W are both "reputable" watts then the difference is a scant 1dB. That is practically nothing in terms of power difference.
 
I like Klipsch speakers too, and I usually swap out the old phenolics for Crites Ti. However, I think the EV is a better quality phenolic than those Klipsch used (not the older K77, which were made by EV). Your ST350 are considered very good tweeters, and I like them in my EVs too, but I usually had to EQ them a little in the top end. Perhaps something else is wrong? Also, I had to resort to buying a pair of complete ST350 tweeters off ebay with original diaphragms as the solution. They're not really expensive, but they need to have the original EV diaphragms. You may be able to check with Bob Crites too, perhaps he can help with retro fitting some EV K77 diaphragms (same phenolic as the ST350 but in a self contained unit, not just a diaphragm with leads attached). In regards to the woofers, for more bass punch you probably need a something like a JBL 2226 or similar versions from Selenium, Eminence etc. The EVs sound great, but they're more midrange oriented than bass. Maybe try them with a subwoofer or two?
 
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Could be a matter of room acoustics too. I spoke to Bob and he said he has no lead on parts, all he has are 16ohm 350 diaphrams.

Well the room is definitely not ideal...but could the extra wattage of a real amp get things sounding better? Maybe even just open up the lows rather than strengthen them greatly? I pulled that 80/ch Yamaha to use with my Klipsch and put a JVC RS33 in it's place because the highs sound more detailed with that one on the EV's. I do notice it peaking out on it's VU meter pretty consistently with bass so I know it's not enough for these speakers.

I'd like to keep them stock rather than replace drivers, and I am much too poor for tube amplification, though I'm sure it'd sound great. I may just have to accept them the way they are.

Does anyone think going with that original pairing of Parasound/Crown would be beneficial over the receivers/IA's I've tried?
 
There should be protection circuit boxes in the EVs, for the tweeters. Are these still hooked up inside? Or were they bypassed during the recap?
 
Yes! Little resistor-looking suckers.They're still connected. I made sure the hifi tech that rebuilt them didn't bypass.
 
Hi SmithTown!

As pointed out before, you have ProSound speakers which intentionally trade high power output/efficiency for low bass output. Take a look at the (admittedly skimpy) specs and they will clearly explain why you are hearing what you are hearing:

http://portablemedia.manualsonline.com/manuals/mfg/electrovoice/s153.html

Just as whoareyou99 pointed out above, these speakers are rated as having usable bass down to 50Hz, but a quick examination of the FR chart shows exactly what you guessed to be true - they have begun to roll off rapidly at +/- 100Hz.

That FR graph also reveals a characteristic that is common to SR speakers (because it yields tremendous volume and "cut") - highly accentuated mid range response. Look specifically at that huge hump between 2kHz and 6kHz. While a hump in those frequencies will allow live vocals to cut through the volume and noise of a rock band, that same hump will dramatically "mask" (audibly attenuate) treble and bass frequencies above and below the bump frequencies. And that is exactly what you are experiencing, isn't it?

Solution? Use a 31 band graphic eq, mini dsp, real-time-analyser, or whatever you have at your disposal to flatten that 2-6kHz hump. That being done, you will notice a dramatic improvement in FR. Both HF and LF will be more prominent. If at that point you are satisfied, you are done. If you still need more LF/HF output, use the eq to modestly boost them. But be very cautious at that point. Once you start to boost LF output, you are putting great (possibly disastrous) demands on the speaker and the amplifier.

Let us know how it works out.

GeeDeeEmm
 
gdmoore28 said:
Hi SmithTown!

As pointed out before, you have ProSound speakers which intentionally trade high power output/efficiency for low bass output. Take a look at the (admittedly skimpy) specs and they will clearly explain why you are hearing what you are hearing:

http://portablemedia.manualsonline.com/manuals/mfg/electrovoice/s153.html

Just as whoareyou99 pointed out above, these speakers are rated as having usable bass down to 50Hz, but a quick examination of the FR chart shows exactly what you guessed to be true - they have begun to roll off rapidly at +/- 100Hz.

That FR graph also reveals a characteristic that is common to SR speakers (because it yields tremendous volume and "cut") - highly accentuated mid range response. Look specifically at that huge hump between 2kHz and 6kHz. While a hump in those frequencies will allow live vocals to cut through the volume and noise of a rock band, that same hump will dramatically "mask" (audibly attenuate) treble and bass frequencies above and below the bump frequencies. And that is exactly what you are experiencing, isn't it?

Solution? Use a 31 band graphic eq, mini dsp, real-time-analyser, or whatever you have at your disposal to flatten that 2-6kHz hump. That being done, you will notice a dramatic improvement in FR. Both HF and LF will be more prominent. If at that point you are satisfied, you are done. If you still need more LF/HF output, use the eq to modestly boost them. But be very cautious at that point. Once you start to boost LF output, you are putting great (possibly disastrous) demands on the speaker and the amplifier.

Let us know how it works out.

GeeDeeEmm
Click to expand...

Damn man, you may have nailed it! That VMR midrange is indeed overpowering. It makes sense since they were marketed as keyboard speakers, but since units like the Interface and FR300 used the same driver for home use I figured they were designed to be heavy in the mid range and have been trying to adapt.

Is this not the case with Interfaces? Are they somehow tuned a little flatter?

You're point makes perfect sense though, as they sound great with amps "loudness" setting on, which accentuates treble and bass to aid in quiet listening with equal fr to loud listening.

They're also magical with artists like Billy Joel, Elton, and a Tom Waits album I have; keyboard, keyboard, keyboard. Plus they're from my fathers band days on....you guessed it...keyboard and vocals.
 
You're welcome. Of course, I cannot take credit for the idea. I heard about it for the first time when I went to the Peavey ProSound Dealer Training course and learned about CD horn equalization. That course was invaluable to a neophyte like me.

GeeDeeEmm
 
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