Examining or Inspecting a stylus.

[sunvalleylaw]

I am soon receiving a hopefully good used Technics SL-1600 with a hopefully good used Pickering XV-15. One couple owned this set up since new. So, I want to inspect or examine the stylus so I can see if there is any life left in it.

I found this guide here on Vinyl Engine and think I can get this done. https://www.vinylengine.com/examining-your-stylus.shtml

Any other tips for me?

 

[tubewade]

That's a pretty good guide. Lighting is very important, and then interpreting what you see is also very important.

Download this manual https://pubs.shure.com/guide/SEK-2/en-US.pdf which is for the Shure stylus inspection microscope. There is good information in there.

Now, you have to understand what you are looking at and what to look for. Spherical and elliptical styli are fairly easy to assess. Many line contact types are not so easy. I'll upload some images of elliptical styli in the next post.

 

[tubewade]

Here's a brand new Shure N75EJ, 0.4 x 0.7 mil elliptical stylus. It's never touched a record.

Same stylus, after playing about 6 Lps. Notice the contact areas, the white shiny spots on either side of the tip, have polished and enlarged a little.

This is an EJ with about nine months of use. It isn't shot, but the contact areas are quite a bit larger than in the first pictures. It can still be used, but should be monitored because it will soon be time for replacement.

This EJ stylus has reached end of life. Notice the contact areas are much larger and are nearing one another. I'd retire it at this time. You will hear distortion at this point.

This one was used too long. See the contact areas are almost touching each other. This one produces very considerable distortion and is damaging records.

 

[Tiver]

Have patience when you start. I assume you have the requisite microscope. Magnification of 100x up to 200x works. Analyzing wear on a stylus isn't as "cut and dry" as one might expect. The depth of field at the suggested magnification is fairly shallow. It's easy to mistake slightly out of focus for significant wear. Wear is not opaque, it's actually polished and mirror like. It takes a bit of positioning and focusing to see these differences. I have put styli under the scope and thought , "shot," only to go back and look later and arrive at a different conclusion, usually, "that still has some life in it."

Wear is easy to see. Actually evaluating a stylus to the point of retiring it, not so much. The tip of the stylus never "bottoms out" in the record groove on a usable stylus. The tip of the stylus will look like a black dot and the wear marks look like two lines separated by the dot. Generally speaking, the smaller the dot, the more heavily worn the stylus, but wear shows up as those lines becoming wider as well. Different profile of stylus will show wear differently, but the center dot you see in the scope has some universal implications.

What I wrote above has been my experience and I think it's a pretty good primer for getting started.

To take it a little further, here are a couple pictures and evaluations. What you will see in real life should be a bit clearer as pictures are a challenge to get right.

The two black bars approximately represents the size of the area that actually wears

Below is a pretty well worn Stanton Stereohedron. Still usable? That would be up to one's ears to decide.


Below is the same stylus as above. It is tilted slightly and the lighting is stronger on one side. It's also a little bit dirty. The green arrow side is dirty. The red arrow side looks very worn, certainly more so than the first picture...This is a result of focus and lighting as much as wear. This is the kind of thing that will take some experimentation with focus and view and light to get a good grasp of what is wear and what is just inaccurate staging.


I hope this helps.

 

[sunvalleylaw]

That's a pretty good guide. Lighting is very important, and then interpreting what you see is also very important.

Download this manual https://pubs.shure.com/guide/SEK-2/en-US.pdf which is for the Shure stylus inspection microscope. There is good information in there.

Now, you have to understand what you are looking at and what to look for. Spherical and elliptical styli are fairly easy to assess. Many line contact types are not so easy. I'll upload some images of elliptical styli in the next post.

Particularly, this will be an older Pickering XV-15 purchased in '76 with the SL-1600 it was installed on, purchased by this couple back in the day. The needle or stylus was replaced once when their kid (who now is the one selling me the table) broke the first needle when he was 3 or 4. So not sure what model stylus is on there. But wanted to see if it still had any plays left in it. I have a JICO D1200 ordered to have in back up. Everything should get to me within a week or so.

 

[sunvalleylaw]

Here's a brand new Shure N75EJ, 0.4 x 0.7 mil elliptical stylus. It's never touched a record.

Same stylus, after playing about 6 Lps. Notice the contact areas, the white shiny spots on either side of the tip, have polished and enlarged a little.

This is an EJ with about nine months of use. It isn't shot, but the contact areas are quite a bit larger than in the first pictures. It can still be used, but should be monitored because it will soon be time for replacement.

This EJ stylus has reached end of life. Notice the contact areas are much larger and are nearing one another. I'd retire it at this time. You will hear distortion at this point.

This one was used too long. See the contact areas are almost touching each other. This one produces very considerable distortion and is damaging records.

Thank you for those example pics. And you too @Tiver . Sitting with my Mom on her birthday right now so will close the lap top but will study later.

As far as the microscope, I think I can find access to a good one through a friend of mine. But I don't own one. As far as the pics, I was going to try and see if there was a way to use my iPhone XS in the process, so I can take lots pics and learn about the process a little.

 

[sunvalleylaw]

If a person was to buy a microscope, what kind and/or brand is a good bet? Even something good, worker-like and that one could find used?

 

[tubewade]

If a person was to buy a microscope, what kind and/or brand is a good bet? Even something good, worker-like and that one could find used?

I don't know what to suggest. For years I used a cheap one, "EduScience?", that was intended for school aged people. It has a 300x magnification setting and it worked really well, better magnification than these pictures, but it was no good for getting images onto a computer. My wife bought me a cheap USB one after she watched me struggle at getting images with the other one. It claims "1000x magnification" but there is no way that's correct. I'd say maybe it's 100x . I know it was a cheap one too, ordered off the internet, but it does pretty well for what I need. I'd like it better if it took higher resolution images as the sensor produces only 640 x 480 images so you can't blow them up any at all. But, again, it was cheap.

Some very important things are staging and lighting. You have to have room to work with the stylus or cartridge and you have to be able to get light directed at both side of the stylus. It's preferable to be able to adjust the intensity of the light also.

 

[sunvalleylaw]

I don't know what to suggest. For years I used a cheap one, "EduScience?", that was intended for school aged people. It has a a 300x magnification setting and it worked really well, better magnification than these pictures, but it was no good for getting images onto a computer. My wife bought me a cheap USB one after she watched me struggle at getting images with the other one. It claims "1000x magnification" but there is no way that's correct. I'd say maybe it's 100x . I know it was a cheap one too, ordered off the internet, but it does pretty well for what I need. I'd like it better if it took higher resolution images as the sensor produces only 640 x 480 images so you can't blow them up any at all. But, again, it was cheap.

Ok, Thanks. I can just research some USB ones or an add on to my phone, which has quite a good camera, and check reviews, etc., on Amazon or whatever. I don't always love to give Amazon my money, but sometimes it is the easiest way to find something, especially from way out in the mountains.

 

[Tiver]

Here is a discussion from a couple months ago....similar content to your query.

 

[ripblade]

If a person was to buy a microscope, what kind and/or brand is a good bet? Even something good, worker-like and that one could find used?

I bought an Amscope student microscope along with a mechanical stage and an assortment of eyepieces, as recommended in Sparky's thread. Good, solid quality at an affordable price. Still need to work out a good lighting arrangement, but so far no regrets.

 

[for_p1]

I am soon receiving a hopefully good used Technics SL-1600 with a hopefully good used Pickering XV-15. One couple owned this set up since new. So, I want to inspect or examine the stylus so I can see if there is any life left in it.

I found this guide here on Vinyl Engine and think I can get this done. https://www.vinylengine.com/examining-your-stylus.shtml

Any other tips for me?

You will need good microscope with proper lighting setup. That will likely cost you more than NEW CARTRIDGE. Thus unless you need to assess stylus condition on a regular basis, it would be more prudent just buy a new cartridge.

 

[marcmorin]

I am soon receiving a hopefully good used Technics SL-1600 with a hopefully good used Pickering XV-15. One couple owned this set up since new. So, I want to inspect or examine the stylus so I can see if there is any life left in it.

I found this guide here on Vinyl Engine and think I can get this done. https://www.vinylengine.com/examining-your-stylus.shtml

Any other tips for me?

100X would be absolute minimum to see moderate wear. it will take 200-250X to see onset of wear.

 

[savatage1973]

OK--lets just do the math--if the kid broke the original stylus at age 3-4, how old are they now? So let's just assume that if the table was new in 1976, then the stylus was replaced in 1980~38-39 years ago (provided that the kid is about as old as the table). So maximum age of the current stylus is approximately 38-39 years--less if the kid is younger, but you get where I'm going. An album is approximately 0.75-0.8 hrs. Even if they only played one album per day (or the equivalent of that weekly) for every year since the new stylus was installed, you are looking at potentially a LOT (too many) hours on that replacement stylus. Unless the TT has been "shelved" for the last 20-25 years, I wouldn't even waste my time going through the trouble of trying to evaluate and use it.

Just replace it with the new one. You don't even know what kind of replacement is on there--could be anything from OEM to "cheap junk". If you want a "learning project", go ahead and play with a scope and the old stylus, but, personally, I wouldn't even use it. Compared to the cost of "quality" used, or new records, a stylus is pretty inexpensive, and you'll know what you have and how much wear/hours is on it.

 

[sunvalleylaw]

Well, one reason I wanted to find out what it would take to check it out, is that it is that you cannot get new replacement styli for these. There are new old stock, but not new. Aftermarket, yes. And I have one coming, a JICO that is nicely regarded. But many owners of this cartridge feel and say the true originals were different. So, wanted to check it out if I could. I can borrow a good microscope. I know a guy. But maybe I won't buy one. But borrow, and check it out just for fun, and to see if I can see what some of the others shared above.

The new old stock 1200 series styli are over $200 at that auction site, and have been sitting around a long time.

 

[c_dk]

The Wild M5 microscope was the professional standard used by most high end audio dealers and all the cartridge manufacturers Quality assurance and warranty replacement departments. This was throughout the 70 s and well into the 80s. I know from a conversation with ATs U.S QA head they still us one today.

Equipped with the rotating stage it allowed very accurate wear assessment and allowed a seasoned trained tech to determine improper antiskate a alighnment issues.

Yes even Shure Bros. used the Wild scopes in house not the coop provided shure scopes. Same with AT, AKG, Ortofon, B&O,MA, EMT, Sumiko and others that I had personal contact with when seeking Return Authorizations for styli which had diamonds mounted incorrectly. I am sure there were others.

My experience with Grado, Audio Empire, Pickering/ Stanton caused me to wonder if they even bothered.......

 

[Tiver]

Well, one reason I wanted to find out what it would take to check it out, is that it is that you cannot get new replacement styli for these. There are new old stock, but not new. Aftermarket, yes. And I have one coming, a JICO that is nicely regarded. But many owners of this cartridge feel and say the true originals were different. So, wanted to check it out if I could. I can borrow a good microscope. I know a guy. But maybe I won't buy one. But borrow, and check it out just for fun, and to see if I can see what some of the others shared above.

The new old stock 1200 series styli are over $200 at that auction site, and have been sitting around a long time.

You can get a microscope and lighting for under $100 to satisfy your curiosity and provide you with meaningful information about styli that you own and come across.

I have acquired about a dozen cartridges with used tables. Without the microscope I wouldn't play any record I held dear. Having this tool, I have qualified several styli to my own comfort level. I have also, unfortunately, excluded several that would have been great to hear. It has also given me the ability to look at new styli and develop a comparative base line.

It is not too difficult to see when a stylus is worn but still usable. Further identifying the point of "beyond use" would more likely be evident in the stylus' inability to resolve. This would be well before it has been worn down to a nub.