• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Examples of audio distortion from original source due to digitizing

Fusion916

New Member
I'm not an expert on audio compression, but I am trying to learn. What are the kinds of distortion that can happen when compressing music? The things I know what effect sound quality:

1. Bit depth
2. Sampling rate
3. Compression
4. The DAC used in the preamp

Also, does anybody have audio examples of each type of distortion that can happen due to these (and other) artifacts of digitizing music?
 
Register to hide this ad
From where I sit, it appears there is a confusion on terms here. The simple act of digitizing is completely independent from compression. In other words, there is no inherent need to compress digitized music.

The quick answer to a couple questions you have,
1-bit depth determines the noise level
2-sample rate determines the bandwidth
3-(data) compression is not needed, and (dynamic) compression is a rare feature to have in a digitizer
4-the DAC is used in the playing back of digitized music, not in the digitization process

I'm sure there will be plenty of red herrings thrown into this wide open question you've posed.
 
I usually think of distortion in the analog domain, rather than in the digital one, i.e., the alteration of a electronic signal throughout the process of reading and amplifying (enlarging its amplitude keeping its form) it. People talk about different types of distortion according to the mechanism involved: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distortion . Regarding introduction of gear effects into audible ones in digital domains, people mention processes like jitter (relevant, in principle, in CD playback, for example)

Regarding your question, if the process of compression is lossless, e.g. using software that yields a flac file out of, say, a wav one, I don't see any reason for talking about distortion here, either during compression or decompression.

I would talk about distortion in a DAC unit, once the digital to analog conversion has been made. There is an amplifying stage that follows that may introduce deformations of the already analog signal.
 
Bit depth: In an analog signal, the voltage can take any value within a given range, so every tiny little change in voltage is preserved. In a digital signal, the voltage can only take predefined steps, so any information between those steps is lost. Bit depth is the size of those steps, and so how much information is kept. A 16-bit signal has 65536 (2^16) different values that the signal can be, 24-bit has 16777216 (2^24). Increasing the bit depth means that smaller variations in the signal are recorded and less information is thrown away. Eventually you reach a point where nobody will be able to tell the difference between the original signal and a digital copy.

Sampling rate: A digital signal isn't actually a continuous recording, but is broken up into time slots, called samples. Essentially the analog voltage is measured to make one sample, then some time passes, then the voltage is measured again for the next sample, and so on. Anything that happens between these samples is lost, so fast-changing signals (high frequencies) can't be recorded properly. The higher the sampling rate, the less the time in between these samples, and so the faster the information that can be recorded. There's some maths that says the maximum frequency that can be recorded is half the sampling rate, so for a 38kHz sampling rate signals faster than 19kHz can't be recorded properly. For a 44kHz signal nothing faster than 22kHz can be recorded. Too low a sampling rate cuts out high pitches, which makes the sound 'muddy' or boomy.

Compression: The whole point in compression is to make the files smaller, and there's two ways to do this. The first is lossless compression (like FLAC), which is the better type as it doesn't change the sound. Lossless compression just uses clever maths to make files smaller without changing their content. After decompression, the signal from a FLAC file is exactly the same as the signal before compression - nothing is changed (so long as everything is working properly of course). On the other hand, lossy compression (e.g. MP3, WMA etc) works by discarding some information to make the file smaller. The idea is that the information discarded is stuff that you would never be able to hear anyway. The argument against it says that you actually can hear that information given the right conditions. And of course just because you can't hear something doesn't mean you can't feel it. One thing that MP3 does is discard the really low bass. Fine with earphones as you might never be able to hear that bass, but with good enough speakers you may still be able to feel it.

BTW: Don't confuse digital compression with analogue compression, which is something completely different that makes things sound louder by decreasing the dynamic range (reducing the difference between the loudest and quietest parts).

Effects of the equipment: In theory once a signal has been converted to digital, it won't get distorted like an analog signal does. Unless you purposely change it (by compressing it or using effects), the bits that come from the ADC are exactly the same as those that get sent to the DAC (that's the point in digital). Of course nothing is perfect - a digital signal can be corrupted by hardware or software faults, by interference when it's transmitted (over wifi, digital radio etc) or even by radiation from space crashing into the memory chips. But in general digital corruption is far more rare than analog distortion and is less of a problem. But a digital signal still has to be converted to (and from) an analog signal, so you still get analog distortion. The analog circuits in a DAC will cause some distortion when you play a track, and the ADC used in the recording studio will do the same thing when the song is recorded. Fortunately this distortion is very small, and in general a better DAC or ADC will have less distortion, just like a better amp should have less distortion.
 
I don't want to hijack this thread, but maybe this story will fit in to the discussion of the kinds of distortion that we experience in the digital world.

I subscribe to Sirius/XM and listen in my car through a retrofitted Kenwood radio/CD/satellite/ipod/aux in-dash unit, connected to the factory speakers.* From time to time, I notice that the satellite signal produces a warble in the music. For example, a sustained tone or chord seems to have vibrato when I am sure that should not, or to put it another way, sustained instrumental music sounds like an opera singer using vibrato for dramatic effect. Weird. Lately, this has been quite noticeable, and I think I'll call Sirius/XM and ask about it. I'm up for my yearly renewal anyway.

Part two of this logic: I'm considering an HD radio. An elder in our family is probably going to move into assisted living. She likes classical, and where she's going has no classical analog FM station -- however, there's a station that broadcasts a lot of classical on its second (HD) transmitter. I've been reading up on HD radio technology, and it seems that there is a kind of fall-back circuitry: if they cannot pump out the music at the best quality (least loss compression), then it goes out at a lower quality (re-compressed on the fly? not sure...). Basically, they change the quality of the streaming music if there's a technical problem with the transmission setup, rather than go off-air. I believe this fall-back higher-loss could be at the transmitter, the receiver, or both. Of course, with HD radio, you have the added problem of reception distance, something that is not supposed to happen with satellites, right? Ha ha. Yeah, right.

Anyway, I think something like that is happening with my Sirius/XM setup. Perhaps the satellite connection is having a bad day. It does not happen all the time, but it does happen, and lately it is so frequent that yesterday, I hooked up my iPod Classic and played some Weather Report on the commute to work (wow, did that sound better, and that is with the normal Apple compression... what's that called, AAC?)

So, to make a long story short: the distortion I get is warble, as described above, and my next step is to call Sirius/XM and complain. BTW, this came up in some other thread, where an AKer was having the exact same trouble, as I recall.

*p.s. There's no reason to worry about the speakers. My car (2000 Volvo V40) has a total of seven speakers -- 2.1 wiring, I think -- including a nice sub in the rear. Change the source to the iPod, CD, or normal FM on a good reception day and it sounds much better. The culprit is Sirius/XM and its fall-back compression or streaming, I am certain.
 
Last edited:
I've been reading up on HD radio technology, and it seems that there is a kind of fall-back circuitry: if they cannot pump out the music at the best quality (least loss compression), then it goes out at a lower quality (re-compressed on the fly? not sure...). Basically, they change the quality of the streaming music if there's a technical problem with the transmission setup, rather than go off-air. I believe this fall-back higher-loss could be at the transmitter, the receiver, or both.

AFAIK, HD radio in the US works by encoding a digital audio stream on top of the existing analog signal. Analog-only receivers just ignore the digital signal and play the analog signal as always, whereas a digital receiver will play the digital signal whenever it possibly can. If for some reason the digital signal isn't usable (poor signal strength, technical problems at the station, etc), a digital radio will fall back to the analog signal. The digital signal is apparently much better quality than the analog signal for AM (not hard to believe), I'm not sure how it compares on FM.

Here in the UK we use DAB which has a completely different set of frequencies and transmits digital only. The sound quality on DAB is technically inferior to FM on most stations - this is due to the level of compression used by most stations and is a known fact, not just a subjective description.

As for your problems with Sirius/XM, have you tried seeing if you get the same thing on a different reciever?
 
Atom94:

The only Sirius/XM receiver that I own is hardwired into my car -- I just called them, and they recommended a reset and reinitialization; however, I'm at work now and the car is parked in a covered garage, and so I'll have to wait until some later time when I can call them back and be out in the open.

They say they are having no trouble (at present) with their satellite feeds.

Thanks for the further info on HD radio. I've been studying this site:

http://www.hdradio.com/

My citation of "fall back" (i.e., more lossy digital) comes from Wikipedia, which is admittedly a questionable source of information:

The FM hybrid digital/analog mode offers four options which can carry approximately 100, 112, 125, or 150 kbit/s of lossy data depending upon the station manager's power budget and/or desired range of signal. The HD Radio also provides several pure digital modes with up to 300 kbit/s bitrate, and enabling extra features like surround sound. Like AM, pure digital FM provides a "fallback" condition where it reverts to a more-robust 25 kbit/s signal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hd_radio

However, I see now that this quotation is about pure digital FM, and not the HD we have here in the USA, which is on top of an analog signal -- I read the Wiki entry more closely, just now; I missed that the first time around. Thanks.
 
Looks like we're both right:
If the primary digital signal is lost the HD Radio receiver will revert to the analog signal ... Alternatively the HD Radio signal can revert to a more-robust 20 kilobit per second stream

Apparently the 20kbps stream is only available on purely digital stations, not on hybrid analogue/digital stations (which is all HDradio stations so far AFAIK):
HD Radio also provides a pure digital mode, which lacks an analog signal for fallback and instead reverts to a 20 kbit/s signal during times of poor reception.
Makes sense as there's no need for a backup digital stream (and probably no room for one either) when there's still the analog signal to switch to. Especially as 20kbps will sound worse than analog FM.
 
Back
Top Bottom