Extinction of larger woofer speakers ?

[TobascoKid]

There is no category for me so I can’t vote. There is no ‘Large & Unusual Modern.’

Confused-us say: one thousand happily singing birds cannot make a lower sound than one mighty mean rhino.

I find that when we want to move volumes of air with least distortion, to give us the most accuracy with efficiency, there is no replacement for displacement. Of course, to get it right, we have to follow the rules. Some are bad at that. We are all engineers (except me) and some are better. Some misunderstand and/or take shortcuts so they suffer less than best consequences. Everyone does best because standards are lower today. But if someone should do it wrong, their mighty rhinos can quack like hoarse-sounding ducks – and they call it good.

Mine? It was an objective. The system is two of everything independently working together.

The controller amp is nothing special. Doesn’t need to be. I use real bi-amping so the amp only powers my custom-made satellite speakers. Amp just runs at low power because midrange & high octaves are efficient. This amp is really is overkill.

Choice of satellites. One set uses Linaeum drivers and the other uses more conventional ribbon tweeters combined with 6.5-inch woofers.

For the bass, I get higher tech. Custom made with extraordinary dual 15-inchers configured in an unusual isobaric (push-pull)/bass-reflex-design. This design gives me full bass at half the distortions coming out of a half sized box. The design shrunk my sub to the size of a mini-refrigerator. The mini-box also contains a 200W amplifier and poking outside is its electronic crossover and volume control. It’s easy to hide.

About that bass – many have been startled. Comes on fast, very tight, and hits hard. It’s clean down to an f3 of a low 19Hz. No ‘one-note’ boomer here. For more action, I should bolt it down. For less interference, I should anchor my picture frames.

My systems use large drivers for the bass.

 

[KingAzazel]

I have useful extension in my room to 10hz and the pressure hurts at that point hurts so I’m glad I only experienced it during a sweep while dialing my sub in lol. But I can play just about anything and it’s nice tight and visceral without overpowering the room.

Audiofreak71

Not many subs go down to 10 hz only the best ones . Wish I had a mic to measure my diy model but it’s sealed so I’d imagine it doesn’t go down to 10 maybe 20s.

wish I could bring it downstairs but mom hates it ...
Pic of a bad 15” speaker
Guess quality over driver size usually more
Important!!
My biggest sealed sub is around 4.5 cubic feet or something like mini fridge size ... never gets used anymore .
Im using a 6.5” rca downstairs lmao .... like no bass from it .

 

[Champco]

There is no category for me so I can’t vote. There is no ‘Large & Unusual Modern.’

Confused-us say: one thousand happily singing birds cannot make a lower sound than one mighty mean rhino.

I find that when we want to move volumes of air with least distortion, to give us the most accuracy with efficiency, there is no replacement for displacement. Of course, to get it right, we have to follow the rules. Some are bad at that. We are all engineers (except me) and some are better. Some misunderstand and/or take shortcuts so they suffer less than best consequences. Everyone does best because standards are lower today. But if someone should do it wrong, their mighty rhinos can quack like hoarse-sounding ducks – and they call it good.

Mine? It was an objective. The system is two of everything independently working together.

The controller amp is nothing special. Doesn’t need to be. I use real bi-amping so the amp only powers my custom-made satellite speakers. Amp just runs at low power because midrange & high octaves are efficient. This amp is really is overkill.

Choice of satellites. One set uses Linaeum drivers and the other uses more conventional ribbon tweeters combined with 6.5-inch woofers.

For the bass, I get higher tech. Custom made with extraordinary dual 15-inchers configured in an unusual isobaric (push-pull)/bass-reflex-design. This design gives me full bass at half the distortions coming out of a half sized box. The design shrunk my sub to the size of a mini-refrigerator. The mini-box also contains a 200W amplifier and poking outside is its electronic crossover and volume control. It’s easy to hide.

About that bass – many have been startled. Comes on fast, very tight, and hits hard. It’s clean down to an f3 of a low 19Hz. No ‘one-note’ boomer here. For more action, I should bolt it down. For less interference, I should anchor my picture frames.

My systems use large drivers for the bass.

Sounds like a lot to reproduce the standing bass.

 

[goodolpg]

Just to put you (two) on the same page, I used to be a "Furry", though I have since lost interest. So not anymore, but I do appreciate (and obsess with) Wolves & Wolfdogs.
(Including German Shepherds and Siberian Huskies)
Starting to get pretty off-topic here...

Anyway, I don't have a preference for either, though, like, 90% of my speakers are 3"-6-½" bookshelves.

Based on the number of "my moms" in Kings posts I thought he was around the same age as you and you might have some common viewpoints/interests.
He's not.
My bad.

 

[Lavane]

For a long time I felt there was no substitute for larger drivers. And that is still true for the most part I feel. But using multiple smaller woofers and midbass drivers, properly tuned, ported, or even better in some cases a passive radiator, can get you good results also. I've been impressed with a pair of Polk monitor 10's I recently bought and rebuilt the crossovers in.
Two 6" woofers, a dome tweeter and a passive radiator. They actually dig pretty low. The lower bass is great without being boomy at all. I wound up connecting my sub to the second pair of speakers I have setup. The 10's really don't need it. I wish I had looked into this type of design before. I think the wider cabinet helps with imaging also compared to many of the tower designs I've heard. I still like the 10" and 8" speakers I own, but the 10's seem to get a lot right. Enough that I'm thinking of looking for the 11's or RTA-12's.

 

[KingAzazel]

For a long time I felt there was no substitute for larger drivers. And that is still true for the most part I feel. But using multiple smaller woofers and midbass drivers, properly tuned, ported, or even better in some cases a passive radiator, can get you good results also. I've been impressed with a pair of Polk monitor 10's I recently bought and rebuilt the crossovers in.
Two 6" woofers, a dome tweeter and a passive radiator. They actually dig pretty low. The lower bass is great without being boomy at all. I wound up connecting my sub to the second pair of speakers I have setup. The 10's really don't need it. I wish I had looked into this type of design before. I think the wider cabinet helps with imaging also compared to many of the tower designs I've heard. I still like the 10" and 8" speakers I own, but the 10's seem to get a lot right. Enough that I'm thinking of looking for the 11's or RTA-12's.

My only 12” speakers I found at thrift store had blown tweets and mids no surrounds so I would need to replace both drivers . Not sure if I’ll ever fix them , or not .

Imagine being stuck in parents house at 29 , sure I’d love to bring my real speakers the bigger ones from bedroom downstairs but cry cry cry mom hates large subs and speakers.
My towers are only duel 6.5” I may be able to bring them down someday “ doubt it “, but 15” sub no she wouldn’t allow it . My 10” sub was moved to the kitchen by her and my sister knocked it over now they forced it to basement. She said she would toss it outside if tried bringing 10” subwoofer back upstairs lmao ...
How do you get her to not care ??
No wonder tiny Bluetooth speakers sell so well lmao ....
Bigger woofers definitely look more impressive and sound better to me but only ultra expensive brands still make over 10” speakership.
My dads said my tv room downstairs will eventually be gone despite me using all my own gear lol... except the cable
Box..
Subs bass is definitely more powerful then a normal woofer but I’m mad large woofers gone in most models of speakers .
If they were more popular my mom wouldn’t hate them ?
Look how tiny satellites are haha

 

[Audiofreak71]

Not many subs go down to 10 hz only the best ones . Wish I had a mic to measure my diy model but it’s sealed so I’d imagine it doesn’t go down to 10 maybe 20s.

wish I could bring it downstairs but mom hates it ...
Pic of a bad 15” speaker
Guess quality over driver size usually more
Important!! View attachment 2108918
My biggest sealed sub is around 4.5 cubic feet or something like mini fridge size ... never gets used anymore .
Im using a 6.5” rca downstairs lmao .... like no bass from it .

There is a lot that goes into a sub that can dig down below 20hz and the trick is to have usable output at 20 and below hz the driver , amp , box all factors. Then the room is a big factor and using a program like REW really helps to smooth out the response in a room.

Audiofreak71

 

[peterp1]

I haven't cared much about bass output for a long time because I've found that filling out the bass with even fairly modest subs will best almost any main speaker bass, even those with very large woofers. I choose speakers much more focused on all other aspects of sound than bass (like imaging, clarity, etc.).

For my serious 2-channel system, I do still prefer mains with deeper low bass output because the lower crossover makes it easier to tune the sub to ensure it "disappears" (audibly).

All of my 2-channel systems have subs, except for my garage system with tiny Allison 6 cubes with 8-inch woofers. .The Allisons don't go below mid-40hz, but for whatever reason, the bass that is there is perfect and I haven't had any motivation to add a sub.

 

[Audiofreak71]

I haven't cared much about bass output for a long time because I've found that filling out the bass with even fairly modest subs will best almost any main speaker bass, even those with very large woofers. I choose speakers much more focused on all other aspects of sound than bass (like imaging, clarity, etc.).

For my serious 2-channel system, I do still prefer mains with deeper low bass output because the lower crossover makes it easier to tune the sub to ensure it "disappears" (audibly).

All of my 2-channel systems have subs, except for my garage system with tiny Allison 6 cubes with 8-inch woofers. .The Allisons don't go below mid-40hz, but for whatever reason, the bass that is there is perfect and I haven't had any motivation to add a sub.

Actually a sub dialed in correctly can improve imaging soundstage etc, I used to not be a believer until I learned how a sub was supposed to be implemented into a 2ch rig.

Audiofreak71

 

[fill35u]

It's not difficult at all to get to 20Hz, regardless of speaker size or excursion.

What *is* difficult is getting 20Hz at high SPL and low distortion, and for long duration(more than a few seconds).

The standard would be achieving 20Hz at 115dB *at the listening position*, sustained, with distortion below CEA 2010 thresholds.

 

[KingAzazel]

It's not difficult at all to get to 20Hz, regardless of speaker size or excursion.

What *is* difficult is getting 20Hz at high SPL and low distortion, and for long duration(more than a few seconds).

The standard would be achieving 20Hz at 115dB *at the listening position*, sustained, with distortion below CEA 2010 thresholds.

Is 20hz we’re you cannot hear it much but it rattles everything? I don’t got a mic to measure my sealed Subs output .. I wish cable looked good on my plasma tv I’d bring it upstairs just to use my real system .
That old stereo integrity 15” is definitely loud but modern subs are more powerful it’s 8 years old or so now .
These new subs are way heavier and got multiple ports ...
Most speakers do not extend below 35 hz if you look at specifications . Mostly towers get that low 35-30hz.
Almost no one makes bookshelves with 8” + woofers these days .
My diy sub was around $6-700 and wipes the floor with subs that price. I wonder if you can add extra bracing to the outside maybe handles ?

 

[Audiofreak71]

It's not difficult at all to get to 20Hz, regardless of speaker size or excursion.

What *is* difficult is getting 20Hz at high SPL and low distortion, and for long duration(more than a few seconds).

The standard would be achieving 20Hz at 115dB *at the listening position*, sustained, with distortion below CEA 2010 thresholds.

You are correct and I should have stated about below 20hz with usable output because many drop off without much usable output below that.

Audiofreak71

 

[Alobar]

One of the benefits of the JBL 2216Nd1 woofers I added to my L200's is their ability to dig deep into what is usually considered sub woofer territory. With a little peq my speakers are really full range, going to 23hz +plus minus 3db. My room probably helps this some as it's got a very tall ceiling. Subs just wouldn't get past my wife anyway!

 

[Romeo Wolf]

Based on the number of "my moms" in Kings posts I thought he was around the same age as you and you might have some common viewpoints/interests.
He's not.
My bad.

Yep. Lol. I wonder if he still lives with his parents?

Edit: Apparently he still does. My bad, I should've checked first

 

[KingAzazel]

Yep. Lol. I wonder if he still lives with his parents?

Edit: Apparently he still does. My bad, I should've checked first

29 year olds don’t act any different then 17-22 lol
Let’s just say I applied for lots of desk jobs got no luck , I cannot Stand all day as required by most local Jobs or it will trigger my nerve pain , which has been not bad at all lately sitting most the day .
I’m curious how risky bicep surgery is I miss lifting weights but cannot ...
I won’t bring up the economy this is not the site for that .
I love heavy bass speakers but mine are ina bedroom that plasma is crappy for u verse cable . How do I tell my mom I’m
Hooking up my 4k tv instead of my1080 cuz I’m sick of A small 40” tv ... the 4k model doesn’t look good on cable tho maybe not worth it .
I shoulda bought a second Onkyo 818 before they were discontinued....can’t afford today’s amps .

 

[Alobar]

29 year olds don’t act any different then 17-22 lol
Let’s just say I applied for lots of desk jobs got no luck , I cannot Stand all day as required by most local Jobs or it will trigger my nerve pain , which has been not bad at all lately sitting most the day .
I’m curious how risky bicep surgery is I miss lifting weights but cannot ...
I won’t bring up the economy this is not the site for that .
I love heavy bass speakers but mine are ina bedroom that plasma is crappy for u verse cable . How do I tell my mom I’m
Hooking up my 4k tv instead of my1080 cuz I’m sick of A small 40” tv ... the 4k model doesn’t look good on cable tho maybe not worth it .
I shoulda bought a second Onkyo 818 before they were discontinued....can’t afford today’s amps .

Sorry for my earlier misassumption about you.

 

[Hobie1dog]

That old stereo integrity 15” is definitely loud but modern subs are more powerful it’s 8 years old or so now .
?

Don't discount that Stereo Integrity sub. They have made the best sounding subs on the planet since they started. Tight, accurate bass is their design premise.

 

[Poultrygeist]

My Zu's were 10 inches and same for Tekton Lores. My OB Zenith Alnico wide band drivers from 1957 are 12 inches paired with new 15 inch Eminence bass woofers.

 

[YY1]

I used to be a 12" guy. Even in the car if possible.

However, my two current home systems have 10" vintage and 6.5 inch "modern" bookshelves and a 10" sub.
Those 6.5 Boston's sound very good even without the Yamaha sub.

My shop system now has 12 small magnet Pioneers.
It sounded better with 6.5 Yamaha bookshelves and a dual 8" Yamaha sub.

...and I never used to be a subwoofer guy.

 

[Tom Brennan]

This is true about smaller drivers not being able to produce the ultra low notes compared to larger drivers . Example I had Paradigm signature S6’s...

You're drawing a general conclusion from a particular example.

In fact small drivers are capable of going as low as large ones but at the expense of efficiency and ultimate output. And modern ultra long throw drivers make up for what they lack in area with excursion and are capable of good dynamics. I was dogmatic about the need for large drivers until I heard Alan Hendler's small Sunfire subwoofer make very low bass AND dynamically track his Lowthers in Medallion rear horns. I was forced to rethink things.