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Fat Lip Causes Skating

Daddy Bone

Daddy Bone

Well-Known Member
I have a few records where the rim at the edge is rather bulbous and causes the needle to skate in. Sometime it's so bad, it will skate in two or three revolutions into the music. I usually set my needle down on the stopped record and then turn on the turntable. I'm tracking at 1.5 grams and I have my anti-skate adjusted perfectly. I can put a dime (2.2 grams) on the tonearm, but I am loath to do it.

Does anyone have any ideas?
 
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One of two things I think:

1. Stylus is bent up, or saggy suspension causing inadequate clearance between bottom of cart and record.

2. Cartridge too tall, and arm height not adjusted/not adjustable to compensate. There's no standard for cartridge height and they do vary.

Cure to either/both is a brand new low height cartridge like audio technica.

Also. What are you using to set your tracking weight? If the dial on the counterweight these are often grossly in accurate, make sure to use a scale, because too much weight can cause the same issue.
 
Yeah I remember bumping into some guy on the ice who thought I did it intentionally.
In that case, skating caused a fat lip.
 
I agree with Nate, depending on which TT this should be adjustable. I'd also question what "anti skate adjusted perfectly" means? Try an extra tic on the anti skate and see if problem persists.
 
Daddy Bone said:
I have a few records where the rim at the edge is rather bulbous and causes the needle to skate in. Sometime it's so bad, it will skate in two or three revolutions into the music. I usually set my needle down on the stopped record and then turn on the turntable. I'm tracking at 1.5 grams and I have my anti-skate adjusted perfectly. I can put a dime (2.2 grams) on the tonearm, but I am loath to do it.

Does anyone have any ideas?
Click to expand...
It happens to me occasionally though, thankfully, not too often. Sometimes I increase the antiskating force to compensate. Other times I bring the needle down closer to the beginning of the modulated groove.

Chalk one up for manual operation.
 
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Daddy Bone said:
I have a few records where the rim at the edge is rather bulbous and causes the needle to skate in. Sometime it's so bad, it will skate in two or three revolutions into the music. I usually set my needle down on the stopped record and then turn on the turntable. I'm tracking at 1.5 grams and I have my anti-skate adjusted perfectly. I can put a dime (2.2 grams) on the tonearm, but I am loath to do it.

Does anyone have any ideas?
Click to expand...

Try setting the tone arm down as close to the edge as possible by hand.

Do take some practice on an old used or duplicate LP to get it as close as you want it.

My is far from perfect, close enough not to worry about missing the initial opening of the music track or causing damage to the LP or cantilever. :)
 
Is this an automatic turntable or manual? If it is automatic, the "setdown" point is likely adjustable and you can check the owner or service manual to find out how. If it's manual do the compensation yourself and lower the tonearm further inward. This has nothing to do with your antiskate adjustment.
 
om-1s-tilt.jpg No wonder folks accepted CD's so quickly. I had some older SPU and SPE Ortofons back in the 60's with the same issue. I ended up when the opportunity came along advancing to the SL series with much narrower bodies. I never had the issue with 681 series Stantons, but some of the other models had issues, Same goes for older Shure models. If your TT is adjusted to be the best it can be and you are still having the same issue, its time to go shopping. Maybe one of the newer Ortofon MM cartridges with the very narrow profile.
 
Don't use anti-skate to try to get around this. You just need to cue closer to the music start. Most times the stylus will slide a small amount and stop when it hits the lead-in groove. Occasionally, especially if you cue too near the edge, it will build up enough speed to jump the groove - that's why you need to cue as close to the music, and the flat of the main record surface.
 
Thanks everyone. My SL-D205 has a black Grado cartridge. It's tracking at 1.5 gram. The anti-skating dial is ignored during setup. When I use a blank side of an 12" LP, it stays pretty much still when the dial is pointing to zero. So yes. It appears the dial is inaccurate. I don't have that many records that the skating is a problem. I have taken to turning off the TT power after using the dust brush, I set the needle down when the platter is stopped. Then I turn on the power. I tried this on some of my offending records, backing up to just one revolution before the music starts. In most cases, this has resolved the problem. There are still a few that will skate over a few grooves, even if I start a the very beginning of the music. They will play through without skating if I place a dime on the tone arm. This adds about 2 grams. I'm loath to do it, but at least I get to hear the record from the beginning.
 
If your workaround is still resulting in "skating" then don't you think some "anti skate" is in order? Sounds like a much better solution than putting a coin on the headshell to me.

Either that or your tracking force is actually off, are you using a digital scale or the scale on the counterweight?
 
kirk57 said:
Yeah I remember bumping into some guy on the ice who thought I did it intentionally.
In that case, skating caused a fat lip.
Click to expand...

You get a smiley face for that, eh ...

images
 
Grenadeslio said:
If your workaround is still resulting in "skating" then don't you think some "anti skate" is in order? Sounds like a much better solution than putting a coin on the headshell to me.

Either that or your tracking force is actually off, are you using a digital scale or the scale on the counterweight?
Click to expand...

Anti-skate is working for most other records. It is set up just fine. Out of 1400 records I have played with this set up, I think I have about 3 that skate no matter how far I adjust the anti-skating dial. Interestingly, 2 of them are on the Turnabout label. There were a few other on that label that would skate if I set the needle down further away from the music.
 
Daddy Bone said:
Anti-skate is working for most other records. It is set up just fine. Out of 1400 records I have played with this set up, I think I have about 3 that skate no matter how far I adjust the anti-skating dial. Interestingly, 2 of them are on the Turnabout label. There were a few other on that label that would skate if I set the needle down further away from the music.
Click to expand...

How are you setting the VTF?

Also, it's possible the anti-skate is malfunctioning and adjusting actually changes nothing. If testing on a smooth record with no groove results in no skating outward I would expect issues once a groove wall was introduced unless some anti-skate was added.
 
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3 out of 1400? Picky picky ...

I'd leave well enough alone. Trying to tweak to perfection can sometimes result in all sorts of unintended consequences ...

Mark or segregate the disks that give you problems, and go manual when cuing them up.
 
sKiZo said:
3 out of 1400? Picky picky ...

I'd leave well enough alone. Trying to tweak to perfection can sometimes result in all sorts of unintended consequences ...

Mark or segregate the disks that give you problems, and go manual when cuing them up.
Click to expand...

He's setting the stylus on the record while static, then starting the table and still has issues, something is amiss I believe.
 
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