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Film cap circus

oldman55

oldman55

Well-Known Member
After using the white or yellow axial caps or the orange dips in my tube amp rebuilds, I am tiring of it looking like the circus is back in town. No doubt they are nice quality cheap caps but why is it that the brown dip get such a bad rap (aka turd drops). Dont they all have about the same spec? The brown almost disappear in lieu of standing out.
Are there any other inexpensive caps that can perform similarly for near (or slightly more than) the same price?
Oldman
 
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Depends on the brown caps in question. The Wima ones used in Fishers have mechanical issues where the lead actually can break off from the guts inside and go open circuit. None of the ones in my Fisher 600 are actually bad though. The ElMenco and Cornell-Dublier brown ones that look basically like the orange drops except for color work perfectly fine. I've got a number of 1960s vintage ones still in use, and they have always tested fine. Both of my Sherwoods are full of them and the big Rauland-Borg amps I'm currently tinkering with have good ones inside.
 
Hello gadget
In this case, I am referring to the current cheap Panasonic PP polymer and film caps. Or the generic PP film caps from AES. I just dont feel the love for any of these brown beauties and wondered if there was a reason.
oldman
 
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I've used them and haven't noticed any specific issues but I generally don't claim to be able to hear capacitors most of the time. The leads are on the short side as I recall, that can be a problem in some things.
 
I just used some Panisonic "Brown turds" for coupling caps in an amp I'm building now. I've used them in several preamp builds as well. Also used as bypass caps as well. They sound fine to me. I do like Solen and the Mundorf aluminum EVOs as well. All cheap, and honestly I don't here any difference between them. I will say I noticed a difference with the fat browns Marantz used to use. I replaced them in one amp and wound up putting them back.
 
I use the "brown turds" in the course of repair work, and have never experienced any issues, either sonic or reliability wise.
 
The "Orange dips" may have the same spec, but have different construction according to a recent article i read detailing the process of locating the outside foil in film caps.

I like Sprague and Cornell Dubilier caps in general, but loading them "Orange dips" in an amp is anathema to my ears.
 
UncleBingo said:
The "Orange dips" may have the same spec, but have different construction according to a recent article i read detailing the process of locating the outside foil in film caps.

I like Sprague and Cornell Dubilier caps in general, but loading them "Orange dips" in an amp is anathema to my ears.
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After Consulting the dictionary, I take it you don't care for them. From the limited research I did, the orange dips I looked at have copper leads while most of the brown dips have coated Steel.
If all things being equal I would think that the copper leads would make it Superior. How it affects the sonics, I don't have a clue. Your input is helpful.
Oldman
 
715 series is steel and 716 is copper iirc. I know some of the Nichicon or Elna audio grade caps are copper leaded, but I'm not going to suggest that I have heard a difference in that area.

As far as liking or not liking them, I feel like they impart a sonic flavor (or remove a different flavor) or color that I hear as "Orange drop". Closest I can come to describing it wold be beach-ball on stone/tile vs the basketball on wood-floor sound I prefer. Yeah, I know. It's ridiculous.

I've used both types (Nichicon and Elna), but in a vintage solid-state piece with a fairly complex circuit, taking parts tolerance into consideration along with all of the other stuff going on in there, I'm only willing to go out on a limb in the comfort of my own mind. I have a sort of recipe that I lean toward for certain circuits that has served my ears reasonably well.

I have also stumbled across other stuff that was better sounding almost completely by accident. A couple of caps in the power amp of a couple of different Marantz 2230's were quite clearly FAR superior to what I had been using before.Totally subjective, though. I'm an admitted soundstaging junkie. You may be a "Detail" junkie, some folks are "Bass Freaks" (no disparagement intended; I understand the appeal of each and appreciate systems leaning in these directions as long as they don't cause me physical discomfort).
 
oldman55 said:
After Consulting the dictionary, I take it you don't care for them. From the limited research I did, the orange dips I looked at have copper leads while most of the brown dips have coated Steel.
If all things being equal I would think that the copper leads would make it Superior. How it affects the sonics, I don't have a clue. Your input is helpful.
Oldman
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I DO think they the Oranges are good caps. Great company, reliable components and life would be much easier if I could use them everywhere, every time. I wouldn't hesitate to use them anywhere except in audio circuitys that I'm working on or listening to for extended periods. If a customer wants them, I'll happily install them.
 
there are orange caps and there are orange caps. Besides the 715p and 716p, there is also the "PS" series. 400v ones are 4PS, 600v ones are 6PS. Those are among the few I can honestly say I hear, and I don't like it. Unless they're in the feedback loop, and then I can't hear them.
 
gadget73 said:
there are orange caps and there are orange caps. Besides the 715p and 716p, there is also the "PS" series. 400v ones are 4PS, 600v ones are 6PS. Those are among the few I can honestly say I hear, and I don't like it. Unless they're in the feedback loop, and then I can't hear them.
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Is it both the 716 and PS series you dont care for or just the PS?

On a somewhat related note; I placed an order with Mouser yesterday and received the package this afternoon. Tough to beat that service.
 
The PS ones are the ones I've noticed and did not like. Specifically they were at the input stage of my Pilot SA-260. I swapped them for old Soviet K42's that I had on hand and it made a noticeable difference. My Fisher 600 has them as coupling caps and that sounds perfectly fine.
 
UncleBingo said:
The "Orange dips" may have the same spec, but have different construction according to a recent article i read detailing the process of locating the outside foil in film caps.

I like Sprague and Cornell Dubilier caps in general, but loading them "Orange dips" in an amp is anathema to my ears.
Click to expand...

LOL
I wonder how many times “anathema” was searched on google since you posted it. :rflmao:
 
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