First time cart alignment, can this be right?

^^^ Good information. I'll qualify my previous post - the sides of the cartridge need to be parallel to the sides of the headshell when aligning using overhang for the tonearm. If using an alignment protractor the sides of the cartridge should be parallel to the lines on the alignment protractor at the null points.
 
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Rob_Feature said:
This is basically just a doublecheck to find out if, yes, on some models the screws look uneven to have proper alignment of the cart. Thanks for your input!
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Yes it can be perfectly normal for screws to look like yours IF you used an arc protractor
Which type did you use? Not proper name but TYPE two point single point arc etc
JJ
 
Mark B said:
Link to the Marantz 6200 user manual on Vinyl Engine. In order to open the manual you will need to register with Vinyl Engine.

For an S type tonearm & universal headshell the sides of the cartridge should be parallel to the sides of the headshell. This is also specified in bullet point 6 on page 5 of the user manual.
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NOT necessarily case if he is using an arc scheme
Owner manual for traditional static two point
Also and already pointed out you do not align body you align and set over hang with stylus/cantilever
Body just to rough in and in theory should be same/jive but often not
NEVER rely on body for accurate alignment ALWAYS go by cantilever
JJ
 
WaynerN said:
Every turntable is designed around a particular alignment (they have to start somewhere).
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Bad information
Every turntable is NOT designed with specific alignment scheme in mind
Exotic TONEARM?
May be and that is BIG MAY BE
That is why 1/2 inch mount referred to as universal because EVERY turntable is not never was ALL equipped with SAME cartridge
Technics famous tool geo disc and others like it simple one points for mass consumption audience users
Same for platter mounts with points and grids on back
NOT for precision and advanced alignment schemes and diamond cuts
JJ
 
^^^ I don't think I'd use a cartridge that had a cantilever that was noticeably misaligned. Fortunately that isn't an issue with either of my cartridges.
 
JimmyEJames said:
Bad information
Every turntable is NOT designed with specific alignment scheme in mind
Exotic TONEARM?
May be and that is BIG MAY BE
That is why 1/2 inch mount referred to as universal because EVERY turntable is not never was ALL equipped with SAME cartridge
Technics famous tool geo disc and others like it simple one points for mass consumption audience users
Same for platter mounts with points and grids on back
NOT for precision and advanced alignment schemes and diamond cuts
JJ
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You would be incorrect. Even tonearms that are bought separately have specifications for recommended spindle to pivot distance and also specify an offset angle for the arm's design.
 
WaynerN said:
You would be incorrect. Even tonearms that are bought separately have specifications for recommended spindle to pivot distance and also specify an offset angle for the arm's design.
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That is correct. Don't know of an arm manufacturer who starts with the premise of " WTF, it will perform well no matter how we make it"
 
JimmyEJames said:
Bad information
Every turntable is NOT designed with specific alignment scheme in mind
Exotic TONEARM?
May be and that is BIG MAY BE
That is why 1/2 inch mount referred to as universal because EVERY turntable is not never was ALL equipped with SAME cartridge
Technics famous tool geo disc and others like it simple one points for mass consumption audience users
Same for platter mounts with points and grids on back
NOT for precision and advanced alignment schemes and diamond cuts
JJ
Click to expand...

False information here as consumer tables that come with a factory arm are intended to use a specific alinement setup. Separate aftermarket tone arms also have a recommended alinement as per the design of the arm it's self. A 1/2 inch cartridge mount has nothing to do with being universal as to alinement, it's a standardize mounting only.
 
Rob_Feature said:
I just got a new (nice) cart for my Marantz model 6200 and I want to align it the best I can with the tools I have available
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Do you not have the factory 45 adaptor for the 6200? You do know that's it's an alinement tool for the table don't you?
 
So you guys saying if I have rb300 rega arm I have to use rega card stock protractor for align or I am compromising design?
Either use that or worse yet buy rega 3 point mount cartridge only way to be correct with align?
I do not think so
Or same thing only way alignment be design correct is with factory head shell on mass produce type turntable arms?
So why people like orsonic work so hard to give flexible options to public advanced hobbyist?
Alignment schemes in owners manual back in 1970s for simplicity and I also say MAY BE SOME stand alone tonearms MIGHT be alignment specific but that VERY rare
Because if what you say true then why all those old guys work so hard finding new null points to work better for different stylus and cartridge types?
Also Lp grooves AND styli change from 1950 to 1980s so alignment choices might change too for some Lp lover
There is no rule correct align for any tonearm cartridge combination except use one that works best
And WaynerN OVER HANG is NOT same thing as ALIGNMENT I not debating EFFECTIVE TONEARM LENGTH or OVER HANG but position of cartridge can be changed for different null points you choose and still maintain manufacturer EFFECTIVE LENGTH
EFFECTIVE LENGTH of tonearm is ONLY thing determined by manufacturer obviously
Technics gauge only address OVER HANG and leave up to SL-1300 or which ever one owner to eye ball rest!
One is apples one is oranges
So answer to Rob_Feature is still yes he can use what ever null points he choose cartridge looks turned and still be 100% correct with his alignment
No such thing as manufacturer null points except ones they print in book for end user simple set up
And ALMOST NEVER do that ALMOST all Japanese CONSUMER type turntable from 1970s just gave measurement to use and set stylus tip position aka OVER HANG like 52mm etc
I own a LOT of turntables over years and never have one Japanese machine manual discuss NULL points not one
Only thing from manufacturer is EFFECTIVE TONEARM LENGTH determine by OVER HANG adjustment
Feel free to align how ever you want! ; - )
JJ
 
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I use a Orsonic head shell and will never use anything else for my main cart setup just because of the vibration damping it offers. I never had an issue with factory head shells and alignment either using various protractors. Only thing I would worry about with so slanted an angle is groove wear at some point in the record or a unevenly worn stylus longterm
 
4-2-7 said:
False information here as consumer tables that come with a factory arm are intended to use a specific alinement setup. Separate aftermarket tone arms also have a recommended alinement as per the design of the arm it's self. A 1/2 inch cartridge mount has nothing to do with being universal as to alinement, it's a standardize mounting only.
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You are wrong plain simple no other way to say
You not understand difference between OVER HANG and ALIGNMENT
TWO DIFFERENT THINGS
One can effect other so that is why consumer machine owner manual just give simple single point approach for TYPICAL turntable owner most of them back in day just want to play Lps!
So you going to use same alignment for conical stylus as shibata?
JJ
 
Northwinds said:
I use a Orsonic head shell and will never use anything else for my main cart setup just because of the vibration damping it offers. I never had an issue with factory head shells and alignment either using various protractors. Only thing I would worry about with so slanted an angle is groove wear at some point in the record or a unevenly worn stylus longterm
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It is relationship of CANTILEVER that matters not motor body
Nothing to worry about IF alignment done correctly using GRID and tip will trace arc cleanly and NEVER leave
Rob_Feature never say specific what scheme he use
Have fun! : - )
JJ
 
NO were not saying that. We are saying that the arm was designed around a particular alignment (hence the 3 point screws used to secure and align a Rega arm to a Rega cartridge. You can, however, align your cartridge to any other alignment, but it would not be in the position the arm was designed around.

I have the Rega RB-300 arm but its cartridge is aligned in a Lofgren B alignment. Yes, the cartridge looks "crooked" but that is how it is supposed to be.

Overhang is a part of the alignment that is dependent on 2 factors. 1st being the turntable spindle to tonearm pivot center and secondly, which alignment you wish to use.

The Japanese tables were designed for simplicity. All they wanted the consumer to do was to mount the cartridge "square" to the headshell, and then line up the stylus with a mark on the alignment tool. It was for simplicity. However, the math is still there. If you were to use the supplied tool, then down load a Stevenson protractor, you would find that they line up exactly. The overhang is correct, the offset angle is correct. It was designed around one particular alignment.

Here is an example. Will use my Technics SL1200MKII as the table.

I know its spindle to pivot distance is 215mm.

In a Stevenson alignment (DIN version), its overhang is 14.929 (close enough for the specified 15mm), it's offset angle is 22.102° (close enough for the specified 22°)
That is what I would get if I used the supplied alignment tool.

If I wanted a Baerwald (Lofgren A) (IEC version), the overhang would be 17.817mm, its offset angle would be 23.664°

If I wanted a Lofgren B alignment (IEC version), the overhang would be 18.282mm and the offset angle would be 23.614°

So as you can see, as we go from alignment to alignment (Stevenson>Baerwald>Lofgren B), the overhang increased but the offset angle decreased.
 
WaynerN said:
In a Stevenson alignment (DIN version), its overhang is 14.929 (close enough for the specified 15mm), it's offset angle is 22.102° (close enough for the specified 22°)
That is what I would get if I used the supplied alignment tool.

If I wanted a Baerwald (Lofgren A) (IEC version), the overhang would be 17.817mm, its offset angle would be 23.664°

If I wanted a Lofgren B alignment (IEC version), the overhang would be 18.282mm and the offset angle would be 23.614°

So as you can see, as we go from alignment to alignment (Stevenson>Baerwald>Lofgren B), the overhang increased but the offset angle decreased.
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;) well, no. the only one that overhang increased while offset decreased is going from L-A to L-B . Offset increased while overhang increased going from Stevenson to either L-A/B
 
JimmyEJames said:
So you guys saying if I have rb300 rega arm I have to use rega card stock protractor for align or I am compromising design?
Either use that or worse yet buy rega 3 point mount cartridge only way to be correct with align?
I do not think so
Or same thing only way alignment be design correct is with factory head shell on mass produce type turntable arms?
So why people like orsonic work so hard to give flexible options to public advanced hobbyist?
Alignment schemes in owners manual back in 1970s for simplicity and I also say MAY BE SOME stand alone tonearms MIGHT be alignment specific but that VERY rare
Because if what you say true then why all those old guys work so hard finding new null points to work better for different stylus and cartridge types?
Also Lp grooves AND styli change from 1950 to 1980s so alignment choices might change too for some Lp lover
There is no rule correct align for any tonearm cartridge combination except use one that works best
And WaynerN OVER HANG is NOT same thing as ALIGNMENT I not debating EFFECTIVE TONEARM LENGTH or OVER HANG but position of cartridge can be changed for different null points you choose and still maintain manufacturer EFFECTIVE LENGTH
EFFECTIVE LENGTH of tonearm is ONLY thing determined by manufacturer obviously
Technics gauge only address OVER HANG and leave up to SL-1300 or which ever one owner to eye ball rest!
One is apples one is oranges
So answer to Rob_Feature is still yes he can use what ever null points he choose cartridge looks turned and still be 100% correct with his alignment
No such thing as manufacturer null points except ones they print in book for end user simple set up
And ALMOST NEVER do that ALMOST all Japanese CONSUMER type turntable from 1970s just gave measurement to use and set stylus tip position aka OVER HANG like 52mm etc
I own a LOT of turntables over years and never have one Japanese machine manual discuss NULL points not one
Only thing from manufacturer is EFFECTIVE TONEARM LENGTH determine by OVER HANG adjustment
Feel free to align how ever you want! ; - )
JJ
Click to expand...

But in reality what one does is deciding where one wants the null points to be. Everything else is worked out from there.
 
JimmyEJames said:
It is relationship of CANTILEVER that matters not motor body
Nothing to worry about IF alignment done correctly using GRID and tip will trace arc cleanly and NEVER leave
Rob_Feature never say specific what scheme he use
Have fun! : - )
JJ
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You lost me JJ, cantilever and body should align true together. You move the body when aligning, not the cantilever or did I misread you? I use a 1200mk2 also and I try to keep it in spec with the manufacturers recommendation. If overhang is 220mm, then that's where it's locked in
 
Northwinds said:
You lost me JJ, cantilever and body should align true together.
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Should, but doesn't always. Cantilever is not always perfectly aligned with cart body due to production/quality variances. So align the cantilever, not the body of the cart.

If the cant happens to be properly aligned with the cart then it's easy!
 
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