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Fisher X-202 One Sweet Machine

sony6060

Super Member
Banned
I am rebuilding a Fisher X-202. Some features are a GZ34 rectifier, PP 7189 (6BQ5 family) and fixed bias design. I prefer fixed bias vs cathode bias, but perhaps that is just me.

Some other attributes of this X-202 is the original power supply design. The power supply uses two parallel 250 ohm resistors in-between the rectifier and first capacitor for 380 volts DC to the power tube plates.

7189 are rated for 400 volts, but rather high voltage for a 6BQ5 type tube. Even if 7189s have some difference I could not measure internally vs the 6BQ5, 7189s are rare and expensive. Further tests of a 7189 in a 6BQ5 circuit did not produce any different sound using same brand of tube.

Removing the fore-mentioned power supply resistor and adding a 4HY choke makes for a wonderful choke input design and lowers the voltage to a more comfortable 340 volts DC. If the line voltage is over 120 volts AC, perhaps 350 volts DC. The screens are now at 250 volts vs the original 280 volts. Further down stream, two 2.4K resistors are used for a CRCRC network. I changed the first resistor (closest to the power supply high B+) from 2.4K to 1.2K to bring up the voltage closer to spec downstream of the screen supply for the preamp tubes. The power supply can afford lower voltage drop across the new resistor without higher ripple due to the far superior filtering of the new choke input and new 100uF capacitor.

Choke input power supplies provide good regulation and affords a higher rated filter capacitor for the tube rectifier maximum specification. In this case, I used 100uF for about 2.2 volts AC ripple under load. An old approximate calculation is HY x C = total capacitance. In this case 4HY x 100uF = 400uF of effective capacitance.

The bias supply also supplies DC for the phono and preamp tubes. I am a little surprised the tubes are operating at a starved filament voltage of 9.5 volts DC each as two tubes are wired in series. My tests have shown not so great performance below 5.5 volts on 6.3 volt wired preamp tubes.

I removed the old bias bridge rectifier and installed a Schottky bridge using 80 volt rated rectifiers. My thinking of 80 volts rating is the AC input to the bridge rectifier is 24 volts. Designs with 2.5 x the diode operating voltage makes for failures disappearing. This is old school general based design info.

The new bridge rectifier affords 25.4 volts DC output. Preamp tubes are operating at 12.7 VDC or within spec. I rebuilt the old can cap and raised the original 2x 1000uF @ 30 volt caps to 4700uF @ 35 volts.

The power tubes have a convenient bias adjust pot. Simple adjustment back to -14 volts factory spec is a breeze. I used -13 volts bias. This bias point is excellent for GE 6BQ5s at the operating voltages. I like to operate Mullard EL84 hot at -11 for best sound at the new voltage ratings.

This amp sound marvelous without the better tubes & coupling capacitors I propose right now. In fact, it makes me rethink about Mullard 7247 not sounding so great. Another (not Fisher) amp was disappointing using the Mullard 7247. I do have top shelf CBS 7247s on the way.

Bottom line. I have to buy a Fisher X-202 for myself. My Fisher 400 with extensive upgrades is already nervous. Our toys have feelings, right? Perhaps not.

I will follow up on the X-202 rebuild.
 

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Sony -- You might remember a thread I did on a pitiful one I bought that was offered as a junker only. Needed a little work, and a lot of TLC. The only mods I did were to make the output tubes operate safely, and make the biasing procedure easier, but other than that, I intentionally left the unit as stock as possible for a reference unit. It is a wonderful unit that I dearly enjoy, and use regularly. You can find the thread I did on mine here:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=551073

Good luck on your hunt!

Dave
 
Al -- That's the choke he talked about in his opening post. It is electrically a very substantial choke!

Dave
 
Really Nice Looking Amp!

Sony, that amp sounds like it would be a very nice companion for my FM-100-C tuner. I'm using my Velleman K-4040 to drive it at present, but I'm keeping my eyes open for a deal somewhere. I like your ideas for the changes, although I don't completely understand them...only because I'm new to tube gear. I'm hoping that as I spend more time with my nose in there it will start making more sense to me. I can't think of a better place to get the "hands on" experience than right here at AK. You all are great teachers!! :)

John
 
Sony, that amp sounds like it would be a very nice companion for my FM-100-C tuner. I'm using my Velleman K-4040 to drive it at present, but I'm keeping my eyes open for a deal somewhere. I like your ideas for the changes, although I don't completely understand them...only because I'm new to tube gear. I'm hoping that as I spend more time with my nose in there it will start making more sense to me. I can't think of a better place to get the "hands on" experience than right here at AK. You all are great teachers!! :)

John

Some tips-

A well filtered power supply for the power tubes with plenty of reserve pays. Not as important at low listening levels or using high efficiency speakers at 5 watts out, but at higher output it pays dividends in the bass department.

Pay attention to high quality coupling capacitors. Coupling capacitors can make or break an amp.

Better tubes refine the sound. Phono section is most demanding.

Original design issues need attention. I find issues, Dave here at AK is incredible at this. Read his posts too.

Do not pick a 'dog' to restore. Hard to beat these vintage Fishers. Clean used amps & receivers are a better bet. Electronics gear stored in a shed have corrosion issues that cause a lot of problems. Forget those garage queens!
 
Thank You, Sony :)

I'll definitely remember these items. As for finding issues....you guys got that arena down pat:D I'm putting some cash aside for some of those Brimars for my phono section of the 400. I've dabbled a bit already with tube rolling, and they DO make a difference. The PC equivalent of tube rolling is selecting RAM. 1GB from one company can't be tweaked but Corsair memory can be overclocked and my PC runs like a chicken in Ethiopia! Corsair does cost more, though.

John
 
X-202 Completion

I changed out many coupling capacitors. This amplifier likes Vitamin Q as the amp can be a little bright sounding. I changed the four phono section ceramic capacitors at the 12AX7 tubes to K40Y-9 @ 200 volts. The 12AT7 cathode follower caps were also changed to K40Y-9 .1uF @ 200 volts. Both were a substantial improvement. I was surprised how much improvement at the cathode follower.

The input preamp tube has four .1uF caps and were changed to Vit Q rated at .082uF @ 300 volt. The power tube .047uF caps were changed to Vit Q .047uF @ 400 volts.

Four preamp tubes have cathode bypass caps. I installed Elna Silmic II 22uF @ 25 volts. Even a cathode bypass cap can be heard on a high resolution system.

Previously mentioned power supply was changed to choke input for 340 volts DC average on the 6BQ5 plates and the screens operate at 260 volts DC. Any 6BQ5 can be used without fear of high voltage failure. Do note I never experienced a 6BQ5 failure at 380 volts though.

I changed the HV power supply output thru two 2.5K resistors to the second can cap downstream. The resistors are now 1.2K each to maintain the original voltage of 280 volts DC. The power supply is so well filtered due to the choke, the smaller value resistors will still provide better than factory stock filtering. I kept the original Mullard GZ34. Perhaps these tubes last 100K hours.

Tubes were changed to the following manufactures.
4x GE 6BQ5 power amp
2x Westinghouse 12AX7 phono amp
3x RCA 12AT7s preamp
1x RCA 12AX7 tall black plate preamp
2x CBS 7247 phase inverters

This Fisher X-202 is simply stunning in performance. The 12AU7 half of the 7247 does ignore miller capacitance of the Fishers that use a 12AX7 phase inverter. Perhaps this is a superior design or at least on paper it is better.

Watch those RCA 12AT7s, some may be noisy. I do have a better respect for the Mullard 7247 in this circuit, but a little soft sounding for my ears. The CBS 7247 are winners, being fast, dynamic and having high resolution without ear bleed.

I highly recommended this Fisher X-202! Anyone want to sell me their X-202? Heh, heh. :D
 
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I won't sell you mine but if you ever want to work your magic on it...

My talents are nowhere near yours. All I did was a simple recap (first amp I ever did) but I do agree--the X202 is wonderful and has that soooooooo cool look--the brass face, the indicator lights and all those knobs and switches.
 
I won't sell you mine but if you ever want to work your magic on it...

My talents are nowhere near yours. All I did was a simple recap (first amp I ever did) but I do agree--the X202 is wonderful and has that soooooooo cool look--the brass face, the indicator lights and all those knobs and switches.

+1 the look of these are incredible, it's as if my x101ST got together with a 400CX...

:smsex:

:tresbon:
 
I won't sell you mine but if you ever want to work your magic on it...

My talents are nowhere near yours. All I did was a simple recap (first amp I ever did) but I do agree--the X202 is wonderful and has that soooooooo cool look--the brass face, the indicator lights and all those knobs and switches.
Yes the brass plate is gorgeous
 

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