Fluance RT85

[Solina Dave]

Hi everybody,
I've been looking at a Fluance RT85 turntable. Apparently it has a, "2 Speed Precision Servo Controlled Belt Drive Motor", which is claimed to automatically adjust the speed 500 times per second, to maintain accuracy. The speed variation is 0.10%. I'm assuming that, in a perfect world, the platter spins at precisely 33 and 1/3 RPM. When the weight of a vinyl record, and the weight of a stylus is applied to the spinning platter, the platter will slow down to something less than 33 and 1/3 RPM.
My question is, will the motor design recognize the additional weight of the record disc, and the stylus pressure on the platter, and subsequently correct the platter speed 500 times per second, to exactly 33 and 1/3 RPM? (+/- .010%)
Thank you, and cheersDave

 

[SomeGuy86]

Hi everybody,
I've been looking at a Fluance RT85 turntable. Apparently it has a, "2 Speed Precision Servo Controlled Belt Drive Motor", which is claimed to automatically adjust the speed 500 times per second, to maintain accuracy. The speed variation is 0.10%. I'm assuming that, in a perfect world, the platter spins at precisely 33 and 1/3 RPM. When the weight of a vinyl record, and the weight of a stylus is applied to the spinning platter, the platter will slow down to something less than 33 and 1/3 RPM.
My question is, will the motor design compensate for this added weight, and subsequently correct the platter speed, 500 times per second, to 33 and 1/3 RPM? (+/- .010%)
My old 1969 ELAC Miracord 50HII has a speed strobe ring on the platter, and a manual speed control adjustment knob. It's likely not crucial that I adjust the speed, but I've always tweaked the adjuster just enough, through the years, to set the speed right on once the record is playing. I'm just kind of fussy that way. Any comments would be welcome.
Thank you, and cheersDave

IMHO, you are overthinking about all this. Fluance is well-known turntable (and brand), and their flagship model RT85 had been praised and talked about for hundreds of times. Especially the older one, which came with 2m Blue ... heck, I would have bought one myself few years back, but alas Fluance wasn't available in my country at the time. Come to think of it, still isn't.

I'm sure audiophiles and other purists may (or may not ... things have changed over the last couple of years) have something against Fluance and other Hanpin-made turntables, but the fact remains that for the most part these things are stable, beautiful and reliable. My only remark about RT85 would be its drive system ... after using Quartz-locked DD for many years, I'm not going back to belt. And yes, I actually do have another table in the living room, an old Dual which is belt driven, but that is beside the point (in fact, it only proves my point why I hate belt drive so much)

Belts tend to stretch, slip and deteriorate over time, to the point where the drive mechanism is no longer accurate and develops significant wow & flutter. Same thing with cassette decks, VHS recorders and pretty much everything else. But that is just my personal preference, so please don't take it for granted.

 

[jrtrent]

Hi everybody,
I've been looking at a Fluance RT85 turntable. Apparently it has a, "2 Speed Precision Servo Controlled Belt Drive Motor", which is claimed to automatically adjust the speed 500 times per second, to maintain accuracy. The speed variation is 0.10%. I'm assuming that, in a perfect world, the platter spins at precisely 33 and 1/3 RPM. When the weight of a vinyl record, and the weight of a stylus is applied to the spinning platter, the platter will slow down to something less than 33 and 1/3 RPM.
My question is, will the motor design compensate for this added weight, and subsequently correct the platter speed, 500 times per second, to 33 and 1/3 RPM? (+/- .010%)
My old 1969 ELAC Miracord 50HII has a speed strobe ring on the platter, and a manual speed control adjustment knob. It's likely not crucial that I adjust the speed, but I've always tweaked the adjuster just enough, through the years, to set the speed right on once the record is playing. I'm just kind of fussy that way. Any comments would be welcome.

It doesn't look like the RT85 offers speed adjustment:

"In this video, we outline two methods that can be used to adjust the speed of your turntable if you find it rotates too fast or too slow. These steps are for RT80 and RT81. Reference Series tables such as RT82-RT85, use a servo motor that cannot be adjusted as it adjusts speed on its own."

Fluance Support Center

One comment is that I've never felt a need to adjust the speed on any turntable I've owned. The DIN standards for hi-fi sound say that anything between -1.0 to +1.5 percent error is good performance, so it's just not something I've ever worried about. However, if being able to verify and adjust for exact speed is something important to you, buy something with that ability. A product lacking that feature could easily prove a nagging annoyance, and that's no way to enjoy your records!

 

[jrtrent]

. . . I'm sure audiophiles and other purists may (or may not ... things have changed over the last couple of years) have something against Fluance and other Hanpin-made turntables, but the fact remains that for the most part these things are stable, beautiful and reliable. My only remark about RT85 would be its drive system ... after using Quartz-locked DD for many years, I'm not going back to belt. And yes, I actually do have another table in the living room, an old Dual which is belt driven, but that is beside the point (in fact, it only proves my point why I hate belt drive so much)

Belts tend to stretch, slip and deteriorate over time, to the point where the drive mechanism is no longer accurate and develops significant wow & flutter. Same thing with cassette decks, VHS recorders and pretty much everything else. But that is just my personal preference, so please don't take it for granted.

Nearly all my turntables since 1976 have been belt drive, including BIC, Garrard, Thorens, Linn, Well Tempered, and Rega. Belts don't cause any trouble so long as they are replaced in accordance with the manufacturers' recommendations. For example, Linn and Rega recommended a 5-year replacement schedule, while my inexpensive AT recommends changing it annually; it's just part of turntable maintenance.

 

[SomeGuy86]

Nearly all my turntables since 1976 have been belt drive, including BIC, Garrard, Thorens, Linn, Well Tempered, and Rega. Belts don't cause any trouble so long as they are replaced in accordance with the manufacturers' recommendations. For example, Linn and Rega recommended a 5-year replacement schedule, while my inexpensive AT recommends changing it annually; it's just part of turntable maintenance.

As I clearly wrote in my initial post:

But that is just my personal preference, so please don't take it for granted.

I understand some folks love belt driven tables, some even prefer idlers, while some prefer DD. You set it up once & enjoy it for years (forever? ... or at least until caps or speed control circuitry fails). Didn't mean any disrespect to either of the three groups, but yes - unfortunately I /am/ aware of the belt issues. Ranging all the way from Kenwood KD-1600 which we used to have when I was a kid to a cheap(er) Dual from the late 80s, CS-415 which I currently have in other room. This one is especially sensitive to worn belts since it utilizes platter rotation to operate fully automated features, which strains the belt more than necessary & stretches it over time.

Where on the other hand, my main table (SL-1210GR) is DD and I absolutely love it. I felt the same way for Audio Technica LP140 XP which I had before 1210, nothing beats quartz-locked DD in my personal opinion. That being said, I stand by of what I initially said - that Fluance RT85 is a great table, and that OP is overthinking about the speed issue(s).

 

[jrtrent]

As I clearly wrote in my initial post: But that is just my personal preference, so please don't take it for granted.

Yes, I understood your post, it's just that you had also written, "Belts tend to stretch, slip and deteriorate over time, to the point where the drive mechanism is no longer accurate and develops significant wow & flutter." I was just pointing out that compromised sound will not occur if the belts are replaced as recommended. I've never heard any sonic issues with belt drive turntables. I do agree, though, that direct drive is nice in that there's simply no need to replace belts. I've owned a Stanton STR8-80 and an AT-LP120XUSB, both of them direct drive, and they were great for my occasional playing of 78 rpm records. I once put a Rega belt out in the morning trash with the intention of picking up a new belt on my way home from work. Sadly, the dealer had no belts, and the importer said that availability was down due to Covid19-related supply and labor issues. I ended up using that LP120XUSB for everything for about 5 months before belts were available again, and it didn't sound all that bad!

 

[Mike_S]

As weight and drag are added, and the TT senses slow down, it will try to speed it up to 33 1/3. The entire point of servo control is to constantly be adjusting to achieve 33 1/3. But of course there are limits to the adjustment. But you will be ok, with a record and needle being at 33 1/3.

 

[justjed2]

Both of my DD decks, Technics and Denon, are servo controlled, and they're also both quite stable.
Not something I really think about, I check the strobe, and adjust if needed. No big deal.

I know that's an apples to oranges comparison, but I just mean that servo control works fine.

 

[Solina Dave]

As weight and drag are added, and the TT senses slow down, it will try to speed it up to 33 1/3. The entire point of servo control is to constantly be adjusting to achieve 33 1/3. But of course there are limits to the adjustment. But you will be ok, with a record and needle being at 33 1/3.

Thanks Mike,
I appreciate your answer to my question. That's pretty well what I was expecting. I was interested to hear if anyone else might be familiar with the effect on the motor of this turntable, when extra weight was added to the platter. Quite frankly I'm not that concerned about very minor speed fluctuations. That, in my opinion, isn't going to have a very dramatic affect on the record's playback. But just the fact that the motor can be designed to make very precise speed adjustments, in real-time, when presented with additional factors, such as extra weight, I found fascinating. I don't have any idea from a technical perspective as to how this is accomplished, but I am impressed. I was just curious, that's all.
Thanks again.....Dave

 

[MER71]

I have a RT85 and use the Fluance weight. Never noticed any issues with speed.

 

[Solina Dave]

I have a RT85 and use the Fluance weight. Never noticed any issues with speed.

Ha! Ha! that pretty well wraps it up. I've never used a weight, so that part never entered my mind. But if you don't have any issues with the platter's speed, with all that additional weight, I guess that amazing motor is working just fine. Good stuff!
Cheers.....Dave

 

[DavidTT]

Thanks Mike,
I appreciate your answer to my question. That's pretty well what I was expecting. I was interested to hear if anyone else might be familiar with the effect on the motor of this turntable, when extra weight was added to the platter. Quite frankly I'm not that concerned about very minor speed fluctuations. That, in my opinion, isn't going to have a very dramatic affect on the record's playback. But just the fact that the motor can be designed to make very precise speed adjustments, in real-time, when presented with additional factors, such as extra weight, I found fascinating. I don't have any idea from a technical perspective as to how this is accomplished, but I am impressed. I was just curious, that's all.
Thanks again.....Dave

The typical method is to use something very similar to the magnet on a bicycle wheel speed sensor that feeds the cycle computer. Either a magnetic sensor or optical sensor track a mark (or marks) on the platter or rotor attached to the motor spindle and adjust motor speed in response to sensed speed changes. Feedback loop. It's a neat feature but I've owned multiple turntables with and without it (belt and DD) and I have never heard wow/flutter even on the cheapest machines I've owned.

Also regarding belts, I've had the same experience as @jrtrent in the belt being the last thing I think about. They last a LONG time with no care as long as the turntable doesn't live in a barn or flooded basement.

Last, the Fluance machines are incredible value. I owned one each of the early RT80 and RT81 models and was amazed at how good they were for such little money. The RT80 cost less than $200 at the time and had none of the goodies on the newest models and still performed well.

 

[SomeGuy86]

The typical method is to use something very similar to the magnet on a bicycle wheel speed sensor that feeds the cycle computer. Either a magnetic sensor or optical sensor track a mark (or marks) on the platter or rotor attached to the motor spindle and adjust motor speed in response to sensed speed changes. Feedback loop. It's a neat feature but I've owned multiple turntables with and without it (belt and DD) and I have never heard wow/flutter even on the cheapest machines I've owned.

Also regarding belts, I've had the same experience as @jrtrent in the belt being the last thing I think about. They last a LONG time with no care as long as the turntable doesn't live in a barn or flooded basement.

Last, the Fluance machines are incredible value. I owned one each of the early RT80 and RT81 models and was amazed at how good they were for such little money. The RT80 cost less than $200 at the time and had none of the goodies on the newest models and still performed well.

Regarding Fluance model lineup, I should probably point out this - all the models share the same motors, thus the same precision & servo controlled circuitry. The only difference between RT80 - RT81 and RT82 - RT85 is going to be the preamp, choice of cartridge and the platter.

RT80 - The cheapest of the bunch comes with Audio Technica AT-91, has a metal platter with slip mat & comes with integrated preamp.

RT81 - The next in line, RT81 comes with Audio Technica AT-95E, also has a metal platter but unlike 80 has a rubber mat. Also has integrated preamp.

RT82 - This is where they took things to another level. This time with Ortofon OM10, once again metal platter (with rubber mat), but NO preamp ... thus giving you a clean, uninterrupted signal path from the tonearm & into the preamp or integrated amplifier of your choice.

RT83 - Pretty much everything the same as RT82 except for the choice of cartridge - this time it's Ortofon 2m Red

RT84 - Once again, everything the same as RT82 & RT81, except for the cartridge - this one features Ortofon 2m Blue

and finally ... RT85 and RT85N (see below for RT85N) The top of the line is identical to RT84, except for the platter. It comes with acrylic platter, Ortofon 2m Blue and no preamp.

RT85N - The same as RT85, except they had to change, replace the cartridge for Nagaoka MP-110. Apparently Ortofon was no longer producing enough stock at some point or perhaps there was some legal issue, IDK. Whatever the reason, they switched over to Nagaoka & changed (modified) the tonearm height to accommodate for Nagaoka instead of Ortofon.

I should also point out that all of the components among these models are interchangeable. In other words you could easily buy acrylic platter yourself and then use it to upgrade RT80. But most importantly, the actual drive mechanism, previously-mentioned servo controlled motor is the same across all the models.

 

[DavidTT]

Regarding Fluance model lineup, I should probably point out this - all the models share the same motors, thus the same precision & servo controlled circuitry. The only difference between RT80 - RT81 and RT82 - RT85 is going to be the preamp, choice of cartridge and the platter.

RT80 - The cheapest of the bunch comes with Audio Technica AT-91, has a metal platter with slip mat & comes with integrated preamp.

RT81 - The next in line, RT81 comes with Audio Technica AT-95E, also has a metal platter but unlike 80 has a rubber mat. Also has integrated preamp.

RT82 - This is where they took things to another level. This time with Ortofon OM10, once again metal platter (with rubber mat), but NO preamp ... thus giving you a clean, uninterrupted signal path from the tonearm & into the preamp or integrated amplifier of your choice.

RT83 - Pretty much everything the same as RT82 except for the choice of cartridge - this time it's Ortofon 2m Red

RT84 - Once again, everything the same as RT82 & RT81, except for the cartridge - this one features Ortofon 2m Blue

and finally ... RT85 and RT85N (see below for RT85N) The top of the line is identical to RT84, except for the platter. It comes with acrylic platter, Ortofon 2m Blue and no preamp.

RT85N - The same as RT85, except they had to change, replace the cartridge for Nagaoka MP-110. Apparently Ortofon was no longer producing enough stock at some point or perhaps there was some legal issue, IDK. Whatever the reason, they switched over to Nagaoka & changed (modified) the tonearm height to accommodate for Nagaoka instead of Ortofon.

I should also point out that all of the components among these models are interchangeable. In other words you could easily buy acrylic platter yourself and then use it to upgrade RT80. But most importantly, the actual drive mechanism, previously-mentioned servo controlled motor is the same across all the models.

Great post but one correction, which is that the RT80 and RT81 are still the same as the ones I owned with different motor and belt configuration compared to the rest of the lineup. The motor sits under the platter, unseen, and the belt rides on an inner ridge of the one-piece (fairly thin) metal platter. IMO the newer configuration with upgraded speed control, belt riding on the outer platter surface, is better than the RT80 ad RT81.

 

[SomeGuy86]

Great post but one correction, which is that the RT80 and RT81 are still the same as the ones I owned with different motor and belt configuration compared to the rest of the lineup. The motor sits under the platter, unseen, and the belt rides on an inner ridge of the one-piece (fairly thin) metal platter. IMO the newer configuration with upgraded speed control, belt riding on the outer platter surface, is better than the RT80 ad RT81.

Indeed, it would seem you are correct. IDK, I remember reading somewhere the official specs (& promotional stuff), where it said how all the models in their RT series offer servo controlled motors, so I assumed that it would be mounted & utilized the same way.

But indeed, those two have the motor hidden under the platter, where on the other hand all other, more expensive models have it mounted outside in upper-left corner. I also left out RT81+ which seems to be the latest addition in their lineup. Upgraded with VM95E (instead of AT-95E) and upgraded with acrylic mat over the aluminum platter. Just to be clear, it's not fully acrylic platter like the one on RT85 - just the mat.

 

[Chad Michael]

After owning 2 direct drive decks, I decided to try a belt drive. Still have my Technics SL7 with the Ortofon TM-14 (since 1982!!!), and the 1200 mk II bought in 2010 (now fitted with a Nagaoka MP-110). Trust me, they get lots of love and are used in two of my systems.

I decided, for my 'upstairs system' on the Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Evo, with the Sumiko Rainier cart pre-installed (nice). This deck has, what I call, a 'sub platter' belt drive, and a heavy steel platter. Very happy with the sound and performance. However, I am completely aware of the Fluance fanclub.... hope it serves you well.

There is certainly something to be said for easy cart swaps.

 

[jrtrent]

Indeed, it would seem you are correct. IDK, I remember reading somewhere the official specs (& promotional stuff), where it said how all the models in their RT series offer servo controlled motors, so I assumed that it would be mounted & utilized the same way.

I have seen articles at Fluance that, for comparison purposes, divide their turntables into "classic" (RT80-RT81) and "reference" (RT82-RT85) series. For example, one difference they describe says, "In addition to the location of the motor changing, the motor itself has been upgraded to a servo motor. A servo motor includes an optical sensor that is constantly checking and adjusting the speed up to 500 times per second! This significantly improves rotational speed consistency and reduces the wow and flutter to a measurement of 0.07% over the 0.2% on the RT80 and RT81." You probably saw a comment about servo-controlled motors that was specific to the reference series.

I have to admit that if I were to buy a Fluance, I would most likely go for the RT80. My experience with Well Tempered taught me that I just don't like an external belt, and I do like both felt mats and the AT91 cartridge!

 

[DavidTT]

I don't have the RT80 or RT81 anymore but I think the other difference between them besides cartridge and platter mat is that the plinth on the RT80 is/was noticeably lighter. I think might have been hollowed-out MDF whereas the RT81 was heavier, not as hollowed out in the body.

For $199 the RT80 is a pretty great deal IMO although at this point I'd opt for one of the U-Turn Orbits in the <$300 market.

Different strokes and all.

 

[AlpacaLips]

I've had an RT-85 for several years, and although it's been mostly OK, lately it does this thing where it slows down when the stylus reaches about 55mm from the spindle. I'm starting to think that the "automatic speed control" party trick isn't all it's cracked up to be.

 

[Iansaudio]

The RT85 looks nice, an exterior belt is a big plus