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FM Stereo

KEB

Active Member
Okay. So a dipole antenna arrived today for my vintage Sherwood S-7100A receiver recently service with new caps. Um, is it unusual for the FM to sound so GOOD?! Not to mention the fact that I'm getting stations 60+ miles away. All of them. Dare I say it sounds better than my PC--->DAC or Turntable? I mean, it's so alive. So WIDE. Maybe a bit compressed. Not fatiguing tho. Any thoughts on this? I figure back in '78 FM was a big deal. The circuits were designed to delver, right? Correct me if I'm off base. It's only been a night listening.
 
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I had have a pretty similar experience on FM listening with my Scott 340 after alignment. However, there are some FM stations with non-compressed broadcasting in my area- classical and jazz.
 
All I can say is "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth." FM can sound can be quite satisfying if the stations do a good job,
 
Like all things audio its about climbing the steps of the ladder or pulling heavy loads with. chain. If all the rungs of the ladder and the links of the chain don't fail, we get surprisingly good sound/. If one rung of a ladder fails we still may reach satisfaction, but if a link of the chain fails were are lost. Its obvious all the links in your chain can handle the job. Congrats. Yes FM can sound great. I remember when some of my station were broadcasting using Dolby noise reduction and with a decoder the sound was fantastic. Now there is FM HD, which I understand is fantastic. I don't have the right tuner to partake, but regular FM can be super.
 
What superdog said. Some stations just don't care too much about keeping the equipment tuned up. There are a couple here that are unlistenable on a home tuner or receiver. Having your tuner properly aligned is a big plus.
 
Yes, FM sounds awesome, particularly on vintage receivers (I think FM is more of an afterthought on newer equipment). After cleaning the tuner on my 1972 Rotel, I can't believe how good FM sounds.

If you really want to have fun, connect a chromecast audio or any other streamer up to the aux input, turn to a local station using the TuneIn or IHeartRadio app, then change intputs back and forth between the FM and the streamed version of that station. The streamed version will lag by a second or two, making it pretty easy to compare.

PS: This inexpensive antenna is better than anything else I have tried -- meant for outdoors but can be used indoors -- it's not small, but it's not terribly huge either ->
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DHHOZBI/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Spoiler alert: the streaming sounds awful and dead compared to FM.
 
I've used that one in the past. I used a 1/2 wave straight dipole now. I used to have a big directional on a rotor. That's where is gets fun DXing stations from all over.
 
Thanks for all the replies. I'm a happy camper. I did do an AB comparison with FM and Amazon Streaming (not high res) and the difference was palpable. My lossless stuff run through Music Bee and Foobar 2000 was a closer match. Very different tho. Again, FM was wider and looser. Lossless stuff was more polite. Refined, with less noise. But man FM is just so fun sounding!
 
Thanks for all the replies. I'm a happy camper. I did do an AB comparison with FM and Amazon Streaming (not high res) and the difference was palpable. My lossless stuff run through Music Bee and Foobar 2000 was a closer match. Very different tho. Again, FM was wider and looser. Lossless stuff was more polite. Refined, with less noise. But man FM is just so fun sounding!

Agree with everything. In general, Spotify Premium at "Extreme" (which is only 320kbps, but should be good enough to sound awesome) just sounds dead in comparison, especially when it comes to "airiness" in the high end. I have not compared against lossless yet. The cool thing about tuning in a radio station via streaming is that you can hear the "apples to apples" of the same song as on the radio -- and there is no comparison how much better FM sounds on my system. Part of the problem is that radio stations still seem to generally stream at very low bit rates (128kbs, sometimes 64kbps :eek:) -- not sure why that would still be the case in 2020, but it seems to be, so their streaming feeds sound worse than they should.

When you hear about the technical limits of FM -- 50db dynamic range, low "equivalent bit rate", max frequency of 15khz -- all that stuff is both relevant and irrelevant at the same time. It's technically correct, but data isn't a reliable indicator of sound quality at all. For example, if you look at the 15khz frequency limit of FM -- that's real -- and you can't help but think that high frequencies would suck on FM, yet high frequencies and sparkle and shimmer (at least for me) is where FM trounces most digital. I pay almost no attention to "data" in terms of sound expectations -- listen to everything with a fresh perspective, it's either good or it's not good. It's either better or it's not better -- data means almost nothing. It's still very helpful to know the data to better understand what you are hearing because there are limits -- jazz sounds amazing on FM, but with pop music I can hear some limits (probably related to dynamic range). Unless it's a really great source (above Spotify Premium 320kbps), I'd rather listen to Jazz on FM than digital despite FM's technical "deficits". For pop music (not that I listen to it), I might prefer digital.

The same goes with LP technical analysis -- LP can be proven to be inferior to digital on a technical basis -- the same sorts of limits that exist with FM. Does that mean anything to the sound quality? The answer (in my opinion) is: yes and no. Let your ears decide and the answer about which is sound better is probably very situational. Those who are too afraid to listen, and do their "listening" via stats instead of listening, are missing almost all of the story line in audio.
 
All this talk abut digital, streaming, and bit rate makes me curious as to what FM stations use as their musical source. I don't think too man use analog vinyl any more.
 
All this talk abut digital, streaming, and bit rate makes me curious as to what FM stations use as their musical source. I don't think too man use analog vinyl any more.

FM radio content is almost entirely digital and has been for a while. Every once in a while our jazz station will play an album, but that's mostly for rare albums not available on CD. So how can FM sound so "analog" when the sources they are playing are digital 99.99% of the time? It can't sound analog on a technical basis. And yet FM does often sound "analog" in real life and it's not an illusion. I don't think anything we use to measure or predict or to analyze audio is a reliable indicator of how audio sounds to the human ear. It's very useful to have data to help you understand differences in what you hear, but to use that data as a predictor of what will sound best is not even a little bit accurate. The people who only evaluate through stats, and refuse to listen or trust their ears, are missing out on pretty much everything in audio in my opinion.
 
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FM sounds very good through my Marantz 2270, though I have to admit that I listen to talk radio (usually NPR) more than music on it. I haven't notices that it sounds better then other sources (I don't think that it does) but let's put it this way: it's good enough that I have no complaint with it. FM is a great thing... the sound quality is good and if you're in the right market you can get great stuff. I'm fortunate in that there are a several stations in my area that hove both good talk stuff, but also great music programming... of all kinds. There's something nice about having a great, super knolegable DJ curating a really nice playlist for you and introducing you to lots of music that you might not have discovered otherwise. The sound is very good but the experience is great!
 
There's something nice about having a great, super knolegable DJ curating a really nice playlist for you and introducing you to lots of music that you might not have discovered otherwise. The sound is very good but the experience is great!

^^^^^ THIS ^^^^

All of the on-demand streaming services are great where you can play anything you want to play, but it isn't a replacement for having music curated by a station -- and it's not that easy to do yourself. I have a gazillion of my own playlists, but they are not a replacement for a good station. Pandora can be great in terms of randomizing songs around your artists/genres -- though Pandora channels do get randomly repetitive over time. Unfortunately, Pandora (at least non-premium) is 128kbps and there's a pretty big sound difference from Spotify 320kbps (I search for the song Pandora is playing on Spotify to compare them).

The streaming from the radio stations themselves still seem pretty bad -- I think 128bps and sometimes 64kbps. I understand why they had those rates when streaming first started, but now that streaming is getting a lot of use, I don't know why they haven't upped the bitrate.
 
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Back in the late '70's I did the weekend graveyard shift on an FM station in Peoria, Illinois. All music (and commercials) were on tape but not reel to reel or cassettes but on NAB carts. They looked a lot like 8-tracks. For the day it was convenient (automatically cued up) and used by pretty much all stations. They came in different lenghts.

220px-NAB-cartridge.jpg
 
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