SET12
Super Member
That's about what I thought and I'm sorry to say it doesn't surprise me at all. I feel for you.
I like to tell people that Bob offers a great service to those that want their Fortes back to factory like new listening condition which is good for most people I suppose, but for me I have much higher needs then what he has to offer.
Here is part of a friends comments that was over at my place that I gave a a demo for comparing the stock pair of Fortes that were in good condition.
So why now? He did something today that not many people have the opportunity to do. He gave me an A/B/A audition of his modified speakers vs. a stock pair of Fortes. We all have made upgrades over time with various aspects of our systems and much of the time we have to rely on our memories of what something used to sound like. Well today, we didn't need our memories and we had quite an experience to say the least. We listened to his first. Beautiful sounding as always. Then we quickly hooked up the stock Fortes. Now please try and understand my intentions as I go on here. I am not trying to be rude, offensive, or disrespectful in any way, shape, or form. I am trying to be constructive with my comments but will be also direct and to the point. When we switched over to the stock Fortes, I could not believe my ears. The difference that I heard from going from the modded Fortes to the stock Fortes was so great that I think I may have been in shock. It has been so long since I have heard a stock pair of Fortes that I had forgotten what they had sounded like. My memory of them were that they were dynamic, fun to listen to, and overall a decent speaker. After listening to the modded Fortes and then switching over to the stock.....I literally could not listen through the entirety of a whole song. They were lifeless, they sounded restrained and congested. They sounded like what detail they had was being smeared. And what got me the most was the tonality. The voice, the piano, the cymbals, etc.....none of it sounded right. I literally asked SET12 to stop playing the song because it was grating on my ears....the listener fatigue was so high, and the sounds coming from the stock speakers were so displeasing that I could not take it any more.
For the full comments you can read this on page 30 and 31
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=159340&page=30
So what causes something like the above? or in your case?
Well IMO iron core inductors do the most damage. They compress the sound stage and they keep most of the imaging between the speaker boundaries.
The inductors are tiny which contribute to some leanness IMO.
Another area that I hear with inductors is their ability to sound coherent though out their working frequency range. Meaning some inductors and most iron cores can sound down right lumpy and slow and even some what peak like in certain frequencies. Its really something to hear this and I would of never of known till I experience North Creek inductors. I hear it even in other brand speakers.
Your new crossover used an iron core inductor in the mid's. I can't imagine the likely damage there subjectively.
The caps aren't bad as I have a friend using the same caps with his DIY ALK Universal networks that use large gauge North Creek Inductors and they sound pretty great to him.
I use the Ti mid and I found with the Forte 1 I just didn't need a bandpass. As the coupling caps for the tweeters crossover are at a higher crossover frequency than the Forte 2 even though the Klipsch spec sheet say's otherwise.
I would of hoped that all new wiring was used. The old wire can really sound pretty bad with age. I heard a pair once that was so dark sounding I could hardly believe what I was hearing.
Associated electronics go a long ways as well especially with what I did. But I suspect it wouldn't make a huge difference with stock Fortes or even Bob's networks.
I guess with all the hoopla over Fortes you expected more and I don't blame you but IMO Bob's networks don't go far enough to get what I and others have gotten from extreme mods. Also it may seem what you did was pretty extreme for most people it is. It just wasn't far enough.
If you could by a cheap plane ticket here I'd put you up for a weekend just to prove to you how far the Forte can go. I'd even fetch my buddies stock Forte's to contrast this. And we are not talking something subtle. Its kind of like contrasting a stock Forte to a Forte that sound's like it should sell for $10,000. I'm not saying that one has to spend what I spent! after all sony6060 spent a $1,000 and from his reports he has a lot of what I have. Its about spending your money on the right stuff IMO.
Would it be worth it?
Well my new friend John drove a 1000mi to hear to hear my claims you can read his (jdg123) comments on page 31 of the above link to my thread. It changed his entire perception of what is possible. Right down to building his own DIY networks and selling his $1300 ALK ES networks.
No doubt your burnt out on all this but I hope you can keep all this in the back of your mind.
Best wishes
SET12
