Franken-Quartets!? K-1-K vs. K-1001-K

[oldsmobuick]

Title should read: "K-10-K vs. K-1001-K"

I just received my Crites diaphragms (for both mid and high horns) and replacement crossovers and so was disassembling my quartets this evening to get ready for the work. I haven't had these quartets long and I realized two things when pulling the parts: One K-10-K woofer has two cuts to the paper cone, one about an inch and one about half an inch. Also, the other driver is DIFFERENT. It's a K-1001-K (not original).

So Should I find another K-10-K (or two?) or find another K-1001-K? It looks pretty impressive but I don't want to put something in that won't sound as good as the stock drivers.

Moray? What say you? And others? Thanks!!

 

[markw300d]

The K-1001-K is used in the KG 5.2. How does that speaker sound?

 

[oldsmobuick]

The K-1001-K is used in the KG 5.2. How does that speaker sound?

They both sound good, I have been listening to them for a week or so but hadn't pulled the grilles. I hadn't noticed a difference between the two. Is one better than the other in this cabinet?

 

[markw300d]

A few weeks ago, I asked a sales rep from Midwest Speaker Repair if their replacement for the K-1001-K would work in the Quartets and he said he had never tried it and did not know. Like the Quartets, the KG 5.2 uses a 4 ohm 10" driver and a 12" passive radiator so they may be close enough but without actually measuring them it's hard to say for certain. The K-1001-K is used in two way speakers though so I am not sure how well it matches up to the Quartet crossover. Quartets are somewhat uncommon and the K-10-K that they use can be hard to find. The cuts in the cone can be repaired easy enough. I'd just enjoy them if they sound good and keep my eyes open for another K-10-K. Maybe Moray will know if the K-1001-K is a good match or not but I am very curious.

This is the page for the Midwest Speaker Repair k-1001-k replacement. It looks like a very good woofer. It would be great if it could be used in Quartets too.

https://www.midwestspeakerrepair.com/mw-audio-mw-5010-10-inch-woofer

 

[oldsmobuick]

Thanks for that! I remember Moray James saying he modded a set of quartets and replaced the woofers with something else, I'll look back and see. I'll also need to do some more research into the differences between the K-10-K and the K-1001-K. Much appreciated!

 

[oldsmobuick]

Morays were KLF20 drivers, I'll keep an eye out for those. In the meantime I picked up a second K-1001-K for $35 on eBay. I'll try using those in both cabinets and report back!

 

[drasp]

Very interested to hear your impressions!!!

The KLF20 drivers require routing the cabs, something I'm not willing to do on my pristine/original Quartets. I love the KG family sound though, would GUESS the KG driver would be more punchy. . . Will stay tuned!

 

[moray james]

I did re route the Quarter cabinets so that the KLF20 woofers could be installed with their black plastic bezel in place. However if you simply take the bezel off (not difficult to do) the driver it will drop right into the factory cutout and looks no different than the stock. The KG5.5 woofer is probably an ok sub as well. The KLF20 woofers along with the re tuned passives resulted in very fine bass better than a stock Forte or Forte ll and by a wide margin. Best regards Moray James.

 

[drasp]

^ Ooh, VERY cool!!!

 

[markw300d]

Two quick questions.....Aren't the woofers for the KLF-20 and KG-5.5 8 ohms and if so, what potential issues could this create? I would think it would change the crossover point but I am not too knowledgeable in this area.

 

[oldsmobuick]

Is K-10-K (stock quartet driver) a 4 Ohm? I wouldn't think the crossover point would be the issue so much as the woofer volume in relation to mids/highs? I am also not an expert. Maybe a resistor would be needed?

 

[markw300d]

Is K-10-K (stock quartet driver) a 4 Ohm? I wouldn't think the crossover point would be the issue so much as the woofer volume in relation to mids/highs? I am also not an expert. Maybe a resistor would be needed?

Yes the K-10-K is a 4 ohm driver. I would think that 4 ohm and 8 ohm drivers would have different impedance curves and an impedance miss match could create either gaps or overlaps in the crossover.

The KG 5.2 sensitivity is rated at 96dB @ 1watt/1meter vs 97.5db for the Quartets so perhaps the K-10-K is slightly more sensitive but I am not sure what differences we would actually hear regarding volume.

Mark

edit...I found this post from GordonW in another thread when asked a question about 4 ohm vs 8 ohm crossovers....

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=312475

For a 4 ohm driver (compared to a crossover for an 8 ohm driver as reference):

-Inductor coils will need to be HALF the original inductance value
-Resistors will need to be HALF the original resistance value
-Capacitors will need to be TWICE the original capacitance value

... to achieve the same response, as the same-design crossover made to use with an 8 ohm speaker.

Yes, it will apply no matter what the driver, whether it be woofer, mid or tweeter. And will apply no matter where the components are used within the crossover network...

Regards,
Gordon.

I assume that the inverse is true when going from a crossover design for a 4 ohm driver to an 8 ohm driver.

 

[oldsmobuick]

Yes the K-10-K is a 4 ohm driver. I would think that 4 ohm and 8 ohm drivers would have different impedance curves and an impedance miss match could create either gaps or overlaps in the crossover.

The KG 5.2 sensitivity is rated at 96dB @ 1watt/1meter vs 97.5db for the Quartets so perhaps the K-10-K is slightly more sensitive but I am not sure what differences we would actually hear regarding volume.

Mark

edit...I found this post from GordonW in another thread when asked a question about 4 ohm vs 8 ohm crossovers....

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=312475



I assume that the inverse is true when going from a crossover design for a 4 ohm driver to an 8 ohm driver.

Interesting. I wonder if any of us including GordonW would be able to tell the difference in a listening test. Theory is theory, but listening is where the rubber meets the road. I'll report back with my impressions/opinions.

 

[oldsmobuick]

I went back to the linked thread and I see the reasoning, which makes sense to me. I am only skeptical in this instance because I've been listening for a couple of weeks to one Quartet with an 8ohm k-1001-k and one with a 4ohm (has that been verified?) k-10-k and have noticed no mismatch in channel frequency response. I might be a bad listener though compared to others. I think being a bad listener might be more of a blessing than a curse sometimes.

 

[drasp]

I think being a bad listener might be more of a blessing than a curse sometimes.

^ Quite true!!! Ignorance is bliss. . .

 

[markw300d]

I went back to the linked thread and I see the reasoning, which makes sense to me. I am only skeptical in this instance because I've been listening for a couple of weeks to one Quartet with an 8ohm k-1001-k and one with a 4ohm (has that been verified?) k-10-k and have noticed no mismatch in channel frequency response. I might be a bad listener though compared to others. I think being a bad listener might be more of a blessing than a curse sometimes.

I've not measured the drivers in my Quartets but SimplySpeakers sells a recone kit that is built to Klipsch specs and has this in the spec table....

Voice Coil: 2", 2 layer copper wire, 4 ohms, Re: 3.7 ohms

http://www.simplyspeakers.com/klipsch-speaker-recone-kit-k10-k-rk-klpk-10-k.html

If they sound good to you, that is all that really matters. :yes:

 

[drasp]

Had one of my Quartets open last night to recap the XO, measured all three drivers while I was in there, got: W ~3.7 ohms, M ~11.5 ohms, T 8.5 ohms - haven't compared to the other side or anything, but they're in excellent condition & playing very well, so I'd imagine these values should be pretty normal. . .

 

[markw300d]

I went back to the linked thread and I see the reasoning, which makes sense to me. I am only skeptical in this instance because I've been listening for a couple of weeks to one Quartet with an 8ohm k-1001-k and one with a 4ohm (has that been verified?) k-10-k and have noticed no mismatch in channel frequency response. I might be a bad listener though compared to others. I think being a bad listener might be more of a blessing than a curse sometimes.

I forgot to mention this yesterday....

Your K-1001-K driver is not 8 ohms. It is 4 ohms like the K-10-K so it may be matched pretty close. I was asking about the woofers used in the KG5.5 (which uses the K-1023-K) and KLF20. They use two 8 ohm drivers wired in parallel (I think).

Mark

 

[oldsmobuick]

I forgot to mention this yesterday....

Your K-1001-K driver is not 8 ohms. It is 4 ohms like the K-10-K so it may be matched pretty close. I was asking about the woofers used in the KG5.5 (which uses the K-1023-K) and KLF20. They use two 8 ohm drivers wired in parallel (I think).

Mark

Ah yes, somewhere we switched talking about the KG 5.2 driver I found in my Quarts and started talking about KG 5.5 drivers. The K-1001-K (a KG 5.2 driver) is 4 Ohm and therefore a good electrical fit for the Quartets. I installed the other K-1001-K I found on eBay so that I am running those in both speakers now and they sound great! I also upgraded mid and high diaphragms and XOs with Crites. And did Moray's 2.5oz washer trick on the passives. I can definitely recommend these modifications!

 

[markw300d]

I am glad that you got things worked out. There is a pair of Quartet woofers on ebay right now if you are wanted to restore them but it sounds like they are working well for you as they are.

Mark