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Fried/IMF speakers

ronrico

AK Subscriber
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There's a pair of TLS80 speakers on Richmond Va craigs list. The tweeter/super tweeter have been replaced, which I've read may be an improvement. I'm not sure how this would effect the value, but for $225, they would be worth a listen.
I would post a link, but my internet connection has been real sketchy of late. Also, I have no affiliation bla bla bla.
 
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Here ya go! :yes:

https://richmond.craigslist.org/ele/5147410992.html

IMF 01414_8wOazdkUYAc_600x450.jpg

"Highly acclaimed vintage transmission line speakers from the early 70's. Do some research...these weere as good as it gets in the 70's.

These speakers were modified by the previous owner to replace the celestion tweeter/super tweeter arrangment with modern Vifa ring radiator tweeters. They sound fantastic. You really need to take a listen. Base and mid range are still provided by the original supurb, and highly sought after KEF drivers.

The KEF B139 woofers and KEF B110 midranges collectively sell on the well know auction site for a lot more than I am asking for the entire speaker set."
 
Oh yea, I'd like to hear those. But, I have to wonder about the 'modification"? Why remove the super tweeter? Especially, when it isn't that hard to find modern drop-in replacements, for both tweeters. :scratch2:
 
I've recently picked up a pair of tls80II and I have to say they are head and shoulders above anything else I have. I've read every post that I could find on IMFs and there seems to be those who think that replacing the original tweets and super tweets is a good idea. Maybe. My understanding is that the original super tweets are prone to damage if driven too hard. One of them is cooked in the pair that I got, but even with that, they are exceptional. I think the pair in Richmond may be a real bargain.
 
Yep, this is still a good deal regardless of the tweeter replacement.

I do agree that replacing the tweeters would be an improvement, the only issue is doing it correctly. Was it done correctly in this case? Hard to say. It appears to be this tweeter: https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...ers/vifa-xt25tg30-04-1-ring-radiator-tweeter/

Now, the HF2000 can usually be replaced with this: http://www.falconacoustics.co.uk/dr...19tff-1-h0737-08-tweeter-prestige-series.html

The sensitivity between the two is different by nearly 3dB. I don't know what the sensitivity would be like with the tweeters combined. It would probably be louder. So maybe, this is a smart replacement. The crossover would have to be modified though, there's no way around that.

Either way, at the asking price it's worth it. You could listen to them and you would know right away if the tweeter sounds out of place - if you are familiar with what a balanced speaker sounds like, it should be fairly easy to pick out if it sounds off or not.

Definitely worth checking out!
 
I'm glad you chimed in Canuck, there was some discussion on one or more of the threads about changing from the original tweet/super tweet to a single tweeter of a modern design that could handle the super hf better. I don't remember which drivers were recommended and if the above mentioned Vifa was one of them.

BTW thanks for posting the link, Stimpy.
 
I'm glad you chimed in Canuck, there was some discussion on one or more of the threads about changing from the original tweet/super tweet to a single tweeter of a modern design that could handle the super hf better. I don't remember which drivers were recommended and if the above mentioned Vifa was one of them.

BTW thanks for posting the link, Stimpy.

No problem. :D

The main issue that I have with replacing the 2 original tweeters, with the single, modern Vifa, is the impact that this change would undoubtedly have to treble dispersion. One single tweeter would seem to me to have much less of a wide range dispersion pattern, that might hurt high frequency 'air'. It would make for a less open sound, than the original design?

Also, while many people like this Vifa design, I'm personally not crazy about it. I found it dark, and lacking in high end extension. While I don't like an overly bright treble response, I don't like a rolled-off treble either. And these Vifa tweeters sound rolled-off to me. IMHO. :sigh:

Oh yea, all that being said; I'd still buy 'em if I had the cash! I'd love to hear some IMF's. But, I don't know why, if I'm flush, I NEVER seem to find a score. When I'm broke, bargains abound...!!! :tears::D:tears:

Plus, I can't be working on a re-fi, and buying toys too (even with these being close). :thmbsp:
 
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I'm not sure what to do about the one dead super tweet in my pair. I don't know if my old abused ears can even hear anything in that upper range.
 
I've been casually watching this listing and it has recently been pulled. I'm assuming that they have been sold. They took awhile to sell and one can draw from this that either not many in the Central Va area know what IMF/Fried speakers are and/or are wary of speakers that been modified.
Just food for thought.
 
I've been casually watching this listing and it has recently been pulled. I'm assuming that they have been sold. They took awhile to sell and one can draw from this that either not many in the Central Va area know what IMF/Fried speakers are and/or are wary of speakers that been modified.
Just food for thought.

I've envisioned a couple of ideas for modifying my IMFs (the RSPM Mk IVs).

One of the ideas does include replacing both tweeters with a single tweeter. My theory on why there are two tweeters in the IMFs is simply because tweeters in those days were not capable of going from 3kHz all the way up to 20kHz on their own. The HF2000, for example, has its flattest response after 13kHz (where it is employed in the IMFs), and the HF1300 is best up until about 15kHz. It's certainly more complicated to run two tweeters, but in those days if you wanted to get a flat response within a few dB between 3kHz and 20kHz, that's what you had to do. These days, tweeters can run the whole gamut without any problems.

You would solve a couple issues, here - one is phasing. Getting both tweeters to be phase congruent with the rest of the drivers is more challenging, which is partially why the IMF crossovers are a bit complicated.

Two is dispersion. Although it was argued above that two tweeters would have better dispersion, this is incorrect. Modern tweeters are capable of producing a wider dispersion with a flatter response than vintage tweeters.

Three of course, is treble quality. The tweeters of today are manufactured with tighter tolerances and more advanced engineering as well as materials, and outperform vintage tweeters (which is evident in the fact that vintage tweeters were not capable of covering the entire treble frequency range on their own).

Another idea is to completely rebuild the crossovers. What I thought I would do is simply install connectors on to the front (or maybe back) of the speaker, and build external crossovers that can be plugged into the speaker. The idea here would be that you could swap between the original and the upgraded crossover. More ideally, however, would be to allow tri-amping of the speaker and use an active crossover. However failing that, with building external crossovers you could do away with the ironcore inductors and cheaper parts and you could even remove the adjustment potentiometers for a cleaner signal. Unfortunately, this would alter the speaker's sound and delineate away from its originality (likely a great deal). The upside here, though, is you may end up with a better product than the original.

Finally, I think another solid improvement is making a better tube for the midrange enclosure inside the cabinet. The one in there is decent, but you could make it more inert with better materials.

Of course it goes without saying these ideas would completely remove any original value the speakers have. This would be viable if these were speakers you plan to keep or, if you can somehow make the changes reversible (for example, building a second set of baffles to accommodate the single tweeter and, slightly modifying the cabinets to allow an external crossover with the option of installing the originals).

IMF speakers are, no doubt wonderful, but there have been improvements made in components for speakers over the years and with advanced crossover design techniques and computer aid, the IMFs could be greatly improved upon. Is it worth it, though? I suppose if you factor in the cost of making cabinets and buying drivers, it could be. At some point, though, they will no longer be IMFs.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on the matter. That's why I think the tweeter replacement done here may have been done appropriately and intelligently, and may have indeed resulted in an improved HF response. It's hard to say without measuring them and listening to them, though.
 
Hi, my name is Ron' and I am an 'improve-a-holic'. I look at something, anything it seems like, and can't help but think about how it can be improved. This is sometimes a blessing and sometimes a curse. As Canuck pointed out, if you plan to keep the item, whatever it might be, then 'customize' to your hearts delight. On the other hand, if you plan to re-sell, then don't stray too far from original. The difficulty in selling this pair of Tls80s demonstrates this point as $225 for a pair of IMFs, IMO, is a total scroe, but took a while to sell.
 
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