Fried Super Monitors and C3L - Suggestions Needed

[WmartinB]

Still behind on the recap but I was able to put the C3L's back together - One speaker doesn't seem to be passing high freq but the other sounds very... Very good..

Glad the 6.5 carbonneau woofers came out as well as they did - extremely musical, detailed and punchy - Now I can't wait to finish the crossovers for these and to get started on the SM cabs

Any thoughts on caps for these? any mods to the xover before I seal everything up?

 

[JimPA]

Still behind on the recap but I was able to put the C3L's back together - One speaker doesn't seem to be passing high freq but the other sounds very... Very good..

Glad the 6.5 carbonneau woofers came out as well as they did - extremely musical, detailed and punchy - Now I can't wait to finish the crossovers for these and to get started on the SM cabs

Any thoughts on caps for these? any mods to the xover before I seal everything up?

More then likely a bad resistor could be the problem with the new Hiquphon tweeter not playing high frequencies in one speaker.

I would replace the sub woofer satellite caps as well if they are the original ones.
A photo would be helpful to see what was originally used.

I have used the Solen 400 volt caps which are very expensive for the sub satellite crossovers.

To save money and not compromise the sound I would use two 100mfd electrolytic caps instead of one 200mfd and a poly bypass cap.

http://meniscusaudio.com/200uf-400v-p-334.html

http://meniscusaudio.com/npe-100uf-p-762.html

BTW the inductor used in each crossover is a 12mh 14 gauge air core which are also very expensive, around 180- 200$ a pair with shipping from Solen.
The original inductors I am sure are fine.

WmartinB it would be very expensive to purchase a new pair of subs like these into today's market.

I think you will be quite satisfied when you finally get these up and running.

 

[JimPA]

WmartinB since the sub terminal on the back of the subwoofer has the bi-amp feature I wonder if those use the parallel crossover?

The series crossover circuit was later used on every model of Fried speakers to follow.
I prefer the sound of the series design myself.

This schematic shows the layout for the series crossover design of the C2 and O2 models.

The schematic below shows the parallel crossover layout of the C2 and O2.

If your sub crossover has the Zobel circuit it has the parallel layout.

 

[WmartinB]

WmartinB since the sub terminal on the back of the subwoofer has the bi-amp feature I wonder if those use the parallel crossover?

The series crossover circuit was later used on every model of Fried speakers to follow.
I prefer the sound of the series design myself.

This schematic shows the layout for the series crossover design of the C2 and O2 models.

The schematic below shows the parallel crossover layout of the C2 and O2.

If your sub crossover has the Zobel circuit it has the parallel layout.

Sorry again for the slow reply - Ripped into the SM cabs today - attached a few pics - Just Ordered Dayton PA caps and Lynk resistors - I will swap everything when they arrive. The SM inductor is huge!

 

[JimPA]

WmartinB I am impressed to see that the rear panel of the subwoofers are 1 1/4" thick.
Fried's kit plans always called for at least a 3/4" thickness.
You sure have some well built sub enclosures there. :thmbsp:

 

[WmartinB]

WmartinB I am impressed to see that the rear panel of the subwoofers are 1 1/4" thick.
Fried's kit plans always called for at least a 3/4" thickness.
You sure have some well built sub enclosures there. :thmbsp:

The entire enclosure is 1 1/4" - Probably the thickest board that I've seen used on a speaker enclosure

Can't wait to finish the xovers in both - I promised the guy I bought them from (original kit builder) that I would give him an update and a demo when everything was rebuilt

 

[WmartinB]

Parts came in today, finished reworking the crossovers on the C3L's - Pushing about 3 watts through them with my baby Ampex test amp... They sound excellent, great highs and mids, bass response is unreal for the size - Pairing these with the SM subs is really going to be something special :thmbsp:

 

[JimPA]

Parts came in today, finished reworking the crossovers on the C3L's - Pushing about 3 watts through them with my baby Ampex test amp... They sound excellent, great highs and mids, bass response is unreal for the size - Pairing these with the SM subs is really going to be something special :thmbsp:

The Lynk resistors really make the Hiquphon tweeters sing.

The clarity coming from the 1/4 W T-line C3L enclosure has to be heard to be believed.

 

[WmartinB]

Installed new caps in one SM cab - Seems like the output is lower than it should be using the satellite out/sub combo? c3l's are screaming by the time I really get anything substantial out of the SM cab - First set of TL's not sure if bass is subdued or smooth - Any thoughts JimPA? Any idea what freq the SM are supposed to cover?

 

[JimPA]

The subs are crossed over at 99hz to the satellites.
The subwoofer bass should be flat to 20hz.

 

[WmartinB]

The subs are crossed over at 99hz to the satellites.
The subwoofer bass should be flat to 20hz.

The xover in the SM cabs is in the Series layout - The original builder had used 4x 100V 50uf bipolar caps and a .47uf 250v bypass cap - Is this appropriate?

I am thinking biamping is the way to go with these or SS with tone controls - Tubes seem to make them sound a little too laid back - The SM's sound great, as do the c3L's - when using them together with everything flat the c3l's scream a little too loud

 

[JimPA]

The crossover cap values are correct.

The series crossover measures better with phase and amplitude when compared to the parallel.

I found with my Fried 10" T-lines they do require a very high current amp for their best performance.
I went from a 200 watt to a 350 watt per channel amp.

The parallel crossover sims is on the left. The series is on the right.

 

[JimPA]

WmartinB I have used the Stereophile Test cd 3 with warble tones that has an oscillated 5hz sine wave to cancel out room modes for speaker measurements.

One issue with taking measurements like this is that most spl meters are only accurate to 30hz.

http://www.stereophile.com/features/424/

The size of the room could also be an issue with your listening perception.
To fully appreciate their sound does require a very large listening area.

I have found that many people are not use to a flat bass response with the Fried three way T-line designs.

 

[WmartinB]

WmartinB I have used the Stereophile Test cd 3 with warble tones that has an oscillated 5hz sine wave to cancel out room modes for speaker measurements.

One issue with taking measurements like this is that most spl meters are only accurate to 30hz.

http://www.stereophile.com/features/424/

The size of the room could also be an issue with your listening perception.
To fully appreciate their sound does require a very large listening area.

I have found that many people are not use to a flat bass response with the Fried three way T-line designs.

It is likely all of these factors are playing a role - I will have to adjust my listening arrangement - This is my first set of T-lines and they definitely have a unique sound - Excellent speakers, I will change things around and I will post pics and impressions

Now I am debating just getting everything re-veneered and completing the refurb, leaving it as-is and saving myself $500 or finishing them in some other way.

 

[sosueme1]

Greetings..I am new to this board. forum and thread . I have a pair of c/3-l's
wired to a pair of 04 subwoofers. I built these from kits in 1989. Sadly, I blew out one of what Fried calls a woofer/midrange but the materials I received had no frequency specs. I see that different members have recommended various replacements. Some require modifications to the crossovers which , although I swapped out 2 30 ohm resistors and 2 5.0 mf capacitors that Fried sent me as an upgrade in 1992, I'm not sure I am up to. I have attached a link to a speaker that a person I spoke with at SimplySpeakers said came as close as he could get to a direct match. Does anyone have any additional thoughts/recommendations/comments?
Thanks to all!
http://www.simplyspeakers.com/replacement-speaker-woofer-w-6028.html#tab-2

 

[JimPA]

Greetings..I am new to this board. forum and thread . I have a pair of c/3-l's
wired to a pair of 04 subwoofers. I built these from kits in 1989. Sadly, I blew out one of what Fried calls a woofer/midrange but the materials I received had no frequency specs. I see that different members have recommended various replacements. Some require modifications to the crossovers which , although I swapped out 2 30 ohm resistors and 2 5.0 mf capacitors that Fried sent me as an upgrade in 1992, I'm not sure I am up to. I have attached a link to a speaker that a person I spoke with at SimplySpeakers said came as close as he could get to a direct match. Does anyone have any additional thoughts/recommendations/comments?
Thanks to all!
http://www.simplyspeakers.com/replacement-speaker-woofer-w-6028.html#tab-2

I would use the Vifa P17WJ-00-08 driver and not the driver Simply Speakers recommends.

If you still have the Fried oem 6.5" driver I would get the voice coil replaced.

 

[WmartinB]

Greetings..I am new to this board. forum and thread . I have a pair of c/3-l's
wired to a pair of 04 subwoofers. I built these from kits in 1989. Sadly, I blew out one of what Fried calls a woofer/midrange but the materials I received had no frequency specs. I see that different members have recommended various replacements. Some require modifications to the crossovers which , although I swapped out 2 30 ohm resistors and 2 5.0 mf capacitors that Fried sent me as an upgrade in 1992, I'm not sure I am up to. I have attached a link to a speaker that a person I spoke with at SimplySpeakers said came as close as he could get to a direct match. Does anyone have any additional thoughts/recommendations/comments?
Thanks to all!
http://www.simplyspeakers.com/replacement-speaker-woofer-w-6028.html#tab-2

If you still have the original woofers and are looking to get them rebuilt - DSRaudio is who I used. - See pics on Page 1