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From KEF Q100 to LS50 ?

chrisr2020

chrisr2020

Member
Hello, today I setup a pair of Q100 to hear KEF for the very first time... So right out the box, I am impressed by their ability to image and detail, and also by how fast they are - very analytical indeed, at least compared to what I have had recently (totem, wharfedale). I find them also thin sounding (not a criticism); not sure if this is just how they are or if they'll develop a bit more as they break in.
So my question to those who are familiar with KEF, what are the things that the LS50 do that make them stand out when compared to the Q100? I can return the Q100s and find some LS50 in a few months.. I have had the Q100 on sale, but I can't quite get the cash for LS50 right now.
Thanks for inputs!
 
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chrisr2020 said:
I find them also thin sounding (not a criticism); not sure if this is just how they are or if they'll develop a bit more as they break in.
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I'm a believer in speaker break-in time. I recently hooked up a set of 104.2's that hadnt been used for 10 years or so. First impressions were the sound was thin and cluttered.

After a couple of days, they opened right up, sound became more separated with more bottom end focus. I believe this was the caps in the xover charging up, or something.....

On the other hand, it could also be a placement issue with your speakers?
 
The Q100's will not ever approach the capabilities of the LS50's. The LS50's are leagues above the Q100. Doesn't mean you can't enjoy the Q100's, just don't try to convince yourself that they compare favorably.
Now if you want to drive yourself real crazy see if you can locate a pair of KEF Blades to audition.:D
 
I had an opportunity to hear a set of blades at a small store outside of Philadelphia PA.

The only word to describe them was WOW.

Granted they were set up with a bunch of other dream system components totalling almost $40k, but all in all an absolutely eargasmic experience.

The stuff dreams are mad of, and college funds are drained for.
 
wmgwizard said:
I had an opportunity to hear a set of blades at a small store outside of Philadelphia PA.

The only word to describe them was WOW.

Granted they were set up with a bunch of other dream system components totalling almost $40k, but all in all an absolutely eargasmic experience.

The stuff dreams are mad of, and college funds are drained for.
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The Blade's listed at $30K themselves, the Blade II's at $25K. Ouch.
 
i had the Q100 first, had them on stands and running with various vintage receivers. the sound stage was really good and they sound damn good great detail like you said but i found i needed to use a sub with them. i moved them to the mains in my HT system when i got a pair of Ls50's and they they really shine there. they did seem to improve with break in. i do like the Ls50's better the big difference for me was the great bass response i can use them without a sub no problem. they also go well with my tube gear. i do think the Ls50's are better but probably not $1000 better. the Q100 with a sub is a pretty good set up.
 
Thanks Chrisxo, I knew you have both and I was awaiting your impressions... I like to collect speakers that are very different from each other; coaxial drivers were foreign to me, so it makes sense to add a pair of KEF. The Q100 have about 10 hours of low-volume playing now, and I am just listening now to different music style at moderate volume, with the sealed sub set around 60-70hz.
My best reference at home are the totem hawks. Drivers are the same size as the Q100, and first impression is that the Q100 lacks body throughout the entire frequency range they are capable of playing. Highs, are thin and in the same time hard sounding, midrange lacks body,upper/mid-bass are totally lacking. Not sure if this is it, this is what you get with Q100, or if they need some running time. I assume the LS50 would add refinement ? What I am really expecting getting from KEFs is an increased level of resolution, and razor sharp imaging; you kind of get that with the Q100, but the overall level of coherency between frequency ranges is not on par with both my totem and even the wharfedale denton, which are in the same ballpark price-wise.
I'll give them a week of running-time before making a decision to return... thx for comments..
 
i thought the mid range was their strong point when i was using them in a 2/1 setup. i was using tone controls with them though maybe thats the difference. my wife thought the highs were a little shrill but they sounded good to me but my upper range hearing in going. yes the Ls50s will add refinement. they are a very detailed speaker with very tight bass and im sure that carries over into the mids, it still amazes me every time i listen how they can get that good of bass out of that small driver.
 
The one thing for sure, as I swap from not-so-good Cds to good Cds and to native DSD recordings, and back to compressed (pandora, spotify, tv..), they are EXTREMELY sensitive to the quality of the source material... I have not played with cables yet, but I will next week. To me at this stage, they are ok analytical type of speakers, but without the refinements of the higher-end stuffs. But boy the pin-point imaging and soundstage you get out of these get close to the Magnepan I used to have.
 
chrisr2020 said:
...
The Q100 have about 10 hours of low-volume playing now, and I am just listening now to different music style at moderate volume, with the sealed sub set around 60-70hz.
My best reference at home are the totem hawks. Drivers are the same size as the Q100, and first impression is that the Q100 lacks body throughout the entire frequency range they are capable of playing. Highs, are thin and in the same time hard sounding, midrange lacks body,upper/mid-bass are totally lacking. Not sure if this is it, this is what you get with Q100, or if they need some running time. I assume the LS50 would add refinement ? What I am really expecting getting from KEFs is an increased level of resolution, and razor sharp imaging; you kind of get that with the Q100, but the overall level of coherency between frequency ranges is not on par with both my totem and even the wharfedale denton, which are in the same ballpark price-wise.
I'll give them a week of running-time before making a decision to return... thx for comments..
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I would suggest that 10 hours may not be enough to break them in properly. Another thing to consider on the sound characteristics of the speaker are the supporting electronics. If you have a Yamaha, Onkyo or Harman receiver, this might add to the brightish sound you are describing. Stranded copper speaker cables won't help either. Hard sounding, thin highs. It might help to describe the rest of your system.

The other thing is, you're comparing the Q100's to a $3000 speaker in the Totem Hawk. The Hawks are in another league, and are towers to boot. The small little kef can't really compare. The LS50 is said to be quite good, but at their price point there are many very good options. My advice is 1500 is a lot to spend on speakers to just find out if you like them better than the Q100. The Q100 is very well regarded, and thought of to be superior to the Q300. It could also be that you just don't like the Kef sound.
 
runnin' thx for sharing thoughts - I power them with a Marantz 8400 (used to be called "pearl lite") - smooth, on the warm side of neutral so it should not exacerbate the q100 signature sound. I also like all speaker flavors, from warm to bright, and I judge them solely on the basis of detail resolution / reproduction of harmonics.
Onto the comparison with totem, well the hawks have been on the market for 17 years now. The drivers were found and are still found on the DIY market. They were worth less than $2K back then. Today, they are still made in quebec, so that's why the price has gone up and not down like most british brands who moved their factories to low-cost everything countries. So when you take the latest iteration of the kef flagship driver, it should be comparable to the high-end danish scan-speak 5" driver.
Now the driver in the Q100 is hopefully not as involved as the one used in the LS50... that's really what my question was: what are the things the LS50s do better and/or, what are the Q100 not doing that the LS50 are capable of.
What do you mean by "1500 is a lot to spend on speakers to just find out they are better than the Q100"? I take the Q100 like I take the magnepan MMGs, or the ice cream scoop, .... A sample of what the brand does.
 
Yeah, the dynaudio 40th are on my list, but not before we set foot on mars. I think my next move is to get some LS50 on stand and listen...
The totem hawks are great all around, but not worth $3.2K in the new world for sure. I think we get a lot more of yesterday's high-end for a lot less new this days.
 
chrisr2020 said:
runnin' thx for sharing thoughts - I power them with a Marantz 8400 (used to be called "pearl lite") - smooth, on the warm side of neutral so it should not exacerbate the q100 signature sound. I also like all speaker flavors, from warm to bright, and I judge them solely on the basis of detail resolution / reproduction of harmonics.
Onto the comparison with totem, well the hawks have been on the market for 17 years now. The drivers were found and are still found on the DIY market. They were worth less than $2K back then. Today, they are still made in quebec, so that's why the price has gone up and not down like most british brands who moved their factories to low-cost everything countries. So when you take the latest iteration of the kef flagship driver, it should be comparable to the high-end danish scan-speak 5" driver.
Now the driver in the Q100 is hopefully not as involved as the one used in the LS50... that's really what my question was: what are the things the LS50s do better and/or, what are the Q100 not doing that the LS50 are capable of.
What do you mean by "1500 is a lot to spend on speakers to just find out they are better than the Q100"? I take the Q100 like I take the magnepan MMGs, or the ice cream scoop, .... A sample of what the brand does.
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Okay, with a Marantz amp, your situation isn't as I thought it might be. Also, I've been on the same journey as you, so to speak, trying different speakers from various brands over the last 2 years. I'd agree with your assessment of the Hawks, except to say that a good design and sound, ages well and doesn't need to be replaced. YMMV. I suppose it's why certain vintage speaker such as the JBL100T are still highly treasured.

On my comment about the $1500, it sounded in your first post like you were strongly considering the LS50, which costs around $1500. I was suggesting that it's a significant amount to spend, but I now see that you were looking down the road a few months. Other than that, I have no direct experience with either speaker, though I have had a few pairs of the smaller Tannoy coaxial designs and agree that a good coax can really image well.
 
botrytis said:
I love when people talk about break in - is it your hearing or the speakers. Once they are flexed enough the speaker is done breaking in. If people talk about 100 hrs of break in that is your hearing not the speaker. No one ever measured break in on a speaker and said AH HA! 'There is the difference'. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen but it is quick, not 100's of hours.

If talking about 3K then the Dynaudio 40th Anniversary model would be in that list and I prefer Dynaudio to Totem (at least Dynaudio makes their own drivers). I have heard the Hawks - to me they are meh to the LS50's - the LS50's are that good. I think the Dynaudios are that much better than the LS50 but you are paying for it also. Don't get me wrong, Totems are nice speakers but not in the same league as KEF or Dynaudio.
...
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On break in, I think some speakers don't need much, and others do. Totem almost demands that you take it easy on their speakers for the first 90 hours or so. I experienced this first hand. I had a Kin sub new and I proceeded to turn it up somewhat, to only have it make some awful noises. I then followed the manual's instructions and after breaking it in you could take it right up to it's limits without any offending mechanical type noise. Same thing with some Rainmakers I've got, they sounded flat and needed time. It might partly be the modifications Totem does to some drivers that need time to break in. As always, YMMV. And I'd rather not get into a debate, if you disagree with my Totem comments, believe whatever you wish.
 
My experience with the Q100 is over... I plugged my wharfedale denton back in and shipped the KEF back after 2 weeks of playing.
I feel the Q100 show a lot of qualities and potentials of the coaxial... exceptional imaging, detail, and fast and precise, but they are not near as enjoyable - musical and refined - as what I am used to.
Next I will put the LS50 on my stands and see how they do..
 
Interesting to hear your impressions on the Q100, at one point before I went with Tannoy I had been eyeing those. I expect that they are not bad speakers for 400, and when they go on sale are a good buy, depending on one's tastes and associated gear. The LS50 has a big following, please let us know how they fare compared to your Dentons.
 
ok -I just setup the LS50s... So yes, right off the bat, I understand all the positive reviews, they let you way in the recording with incredible details and precise imaging left to right, back to front, I would say probably as good or better than the Magnepan MG12 and the Martin Logans aerius i, Paradigm Studio 40 v5, B&W CDM-9nt, or Vandersteen 2CE sig I once had (all comparable msrp or more).
They are so transparent and neutral, at least driven by my Marantz integrated. Fantastic soundstage, Dynamic. Fast. I listen to my CDs and SACD and it is an entirely new experience because of how clear and detailed they are.
So how do they compare to the Dentons? The LS50s are in a totally different class of speakers in terms of accuracy, resolution, transparency. They are bold.
Does it make the Dentons an inferior speaker? Not at all to my ears because the Dentons are so warm, musical, relaxed, never hard; they are such a pleasure to listen to.
I would say that the Dentons and the LS50s have two opposite ways of presenting recordings, one being ultra-revealing with laser-sharp imaging, the other ultra-smooth with warm tones.
To me, they are equally interesting. That's why I'll keep both!
 
I reckon my LS50’s took hours and hours to break in properly. I was quite disappointed with them to begin with and thought I’d wasted my money but the more they were played, the more they started to work better.

My room is appalling for imaging etc but they still sound bloody brilliantly. Hopefully 1 day I can get a dedicated listening space to hear them as they should be.
 
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