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fuses for speakers (maybe DIY thread?)

Onehandclapping

Listen to better sound
Hello all --

I want to replace the normal, old fashioned glass buss fuses in my sets of ADS speakers (710's and 810's) with better quality fuses, ones that will not negativly effect the sound from the drivers.

I went to the Cable Company site

http://www.thecableco.com

and filled out the form for information of which fuses to use, but was told they could not help me with a recommendation!!! Isn't this what they do for a living -- sell audio quality wire, cable, connections, and....fuses?

Can someone let me know what they use on their equipment for fuses? I also have a Denon 3804 receiver, and would up grade those fuses as well, if it will improve the sound from my system.

Thanks everyone, for any advice you can provide.

Scott
 
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Have you ever blown one of the fuses? If not, simply bypass it completely in one of the speakers, then do an A/B comparison and determine which one "sounds better."
-Ed
 
Good suggestion "Ed". but I'm not that brave. With my luck the minute I remove the existing fuses from one of my speakers there will be "pop" or some other crazy sound that eats my tweeter and midrange drivers -- I do not want to tempt fate with these -- I will lose!!! And I reall like my current speakers....

Safer to find the right type of audio quality fuses. I've seen some pretty fancy fuses in my travels; ones with resistors, ceramic bodies, gold plated connection ends...all types of interesting features. Are any of these any good? Do they make your equipment sound any better?

Any thoughts are welcome, as I know very little about this subject and how it effects stereo systems. Is "fuse induced distortion" hype or fact?

Thank you...

Scott
 
In order for a fuse to work, it has to have resistance. A fuse of ZERO resistance would handle infinite power (P = E^2/R). Since that is certainly not what we want, then we have to accept fuse resistance as part of the circuit.

Let's say we have a 2 amp fuse. The power to blow that fuse assuming an 8 ohm speaker is P = I^2 x R = 2^2 x 8 = 4 x 8 = 32 watts. When you apply a sustain 32 watts, the fuse wire melts and the fuse blows.

Note the Square of the current, since we are dealing with power, things aren't linear. Jumping the fuse to 4 amps, jumps the power up to 128 watts. Which means the only advantage to 'Audio' fuses might be very fine increments of current. Personally, if you can't get those fine increments of current ratings, then I don't see much point.

And that happens regardless of what material the fuse is made out of. I would suggest you take one of the fuses from your speakers and measure the resistance, assuming your ohm meter can even measure that low, then ask yourself if you can live with the resistance in your speaker lines.

I've alway said it is not overpowered or underpowered amps that blow speakers; it is always the idiot running the volume control. Keep that idiot under control and you don't need fuses.

Make a fair and reasonable assessment of your amps power and an equally fair assessment of your speaker's ability to handle power, and adjust the volume control accordingly. Of course, there is no accounting for idiot friends and kids. If it's not your money invested, who cares how far the volume control goes.

But for those who want fuses, here is how to figure out which one you need -

Let's work this backwards. Let's say we have 60 watt rated 8 ohm speakers, and we want to fuse them at 50 watts for a little safety margin.

I = SqRt(p/r) = SqRt(50/8) = SqRt(6.25) = 2.5 amps

Let's try another, 80 watt 8 ohms fused at 70 watts

I = SqRt(70/8) = SqRt(8.75) = 2.958 amps (3 amp = 72 watts)

Now comes the hard part, how long does it take a fuse to blow? If you slam it with a massive amount of current, it blows instantly. But what about when the current and power creep up on it? I would suggest taking a very high powered 8 ohm resistor and putting the fuse in series with it. Then gradually crank you amp up and see if and when it blows. It may sustain near the rated current for quite some time before finally blowing.

Most fuses are meant to blow when confronted with a short circuit, so the time to make them blow is not that critical. Massive overload blows them instantly, and that is what they are guarding against.

Also, keep in mind that a fraction of a watt can blow a speaker. It's not just signal or power, it is signal or power over time. I remember a couple of instances where, for one reason or another, a very low level pure tone was being fed into a speaker. A loudness that most would consider faint. But because the signal was continuous and unrelenting, the gradual build up of heat was unrelenting. Eventually the speakers fried from the accumulated heat, even though the rated power was extremely low.

Things are never easy.

Steve/bluewizard
 
The other issue seems to be if it changes the sound at all. If the fuse were soldered in place, seems to me it'd be no different than the leads or circuit traces connecting the innumerable components inside the audio gear itself. Any resistance or capacitance is probably negligible at audio frequencies.

Another way of posing that, is to ask how a half-inch of gold could affect the sound carried by many feet of common copper or tinned leads?

If the fuse were in a spring-loaded holder, then I could see eventual corrosion, unless it were periodically cleaned. There's cheap holders and better ones. I've seen enough crusty AC fuse holders and fuses to know it can be a problem. So if you can improve the connections at the fuse ends, that's probably worthwhile, but mostly from a maintenance standpoint.

In a near-worst-case scenario, where the connection is degraded but still feeding audio, it probably would influence the sound.

But, a nice, clean, well-made holder with a polished fuse probably works just as good as a gold-plated high-dollar type.

If both holder and fuse were gold-plated, then that would be "just as good as" soldering the wires directly to the fuse!

-Ed
 
IIRC the 710 used a 1 amp tweeter fuse. Here's what I would do. Switch to a 1 amp slo blow, like the MDL 1, and bypass the fuse holder with a 0.47 polyproplyene cap soldered to the wires on the holder. Clean the holder and fuse with DeOxid once a year. The MDL fuse has a much shorter fuseable element with a softer thicker metal. If you have quality power of 150 watts or high end power of 100 watts you should never need a tweeter fuse. The original 710 1" dome handles about the same power as the ferro cooled 710II 3/4" dome.
 
wow, great

Hello --

I am constantly amazed at the knowledge available on this forum...wow!!!

Thank you very much for the information on fuse selection. As a retired engineer, I see you are correct with your equations.

Both Ed and Steve deserve thanks from all members of AudioKarma -- people like them make us all better.

I have some work to do. I will get into the guts of the speakers and find the best way to make my system as good as it can be. If I realoloy am serious about this, I should probably either rebuild the crossovers with the highest quality components I can find, or send them out to have them rebuilt by a professional, knowing it will cost a few hundred dollars for such work to be done. It just depends on how far I'm willing to go to make these speakers, which are close to 30 years old, sound as good as possible.

It's kind of funny how sets of speakers from the late 1970's, early 1980's are able to sound better than new speakers costing 10 times the amount these now cost. As I recall, you could buy a set of ADS 710's in 1980 for under $500.

Scott
 
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