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Garrard 40 MK II Runs Slow

kmp14

kmp14

Active Member
I have a Goodwill found Garrard 40 MK II I am trying to get running. I took apart all the mech, cleaned and lubed, and everything is back together. Everything kind-of works in that all the parts start to move, but it seems that the idler is not getting enough torque on the platter to get all mech to respond. Even if I run it in Manual, the speed is VERY slow.

The motor spindle appears to be the correct US 60hz version (it is brass, not nickel), and it spins freely.

Are there other things I should be checking before assuming that it is simply the idler wheel that needs replacing?

Thanks!
 
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Have you thoroughly cleaned the pulley and the idler and platter running surfaces with IPA?
 
Cleaned with IPA, still very slow

JP said:
Have you thoroughly cleaned the pulley and the idler and platter running surfaces with IPA?
Click to expand...

I had not, doh! Thanks for that tip! My first idler and was not sure if/how I should do that (although I should have figured iso alcohol, makes sense). I gave it a thorough cleaning and plenty of grime came off the platter running surface. The idler itself "looks" fine, and cleaned up fine as well. After that though, it still spins very slow. I also double checked the mech that sets the speed, and everything is falling correctly there.

If I pull the platter and run it in manual, I can barely touch the idler and it stops. There is just no torque getting to the idler. The motor is spinning nicely and seems to have plenty of torque. I assume that could be because the idler is worn out? Any other mechanical reason for that, like a worn out spring not pulling like it should?
 
That's normal. The spring is there so the idler makes contact against the pulley and platter surface, but the contact pressure is developed by the resistance of the platter - it causes the motor to effectively push the idler in place.

Is the platter just slow or is it lacking torque as well? If the idler rubber is hard you can have this problem as well - no traction.
 
JP said:
That's normal. The spring is there so the idler makes contact against the pulley and platter surface, but the contact pressure is developed by the resistance of the platter - it causes the motor to effectively push the idler in place.

Is the platter just slow or is it lacking torque as well? If the idler rubber is hard you can have this problem as well - no traction.
Click to expand...

The idler rubber is certainly not supple. I found a recommendation on another thread to lightly sand the edge of the wheel with some wet-dry sandpaper. I gave that a try with no luck. I just dont want to shell out $30+ on a new idler if that is not the problem, but I guess it must be.

Thanks for the info in the wheel torque without the platter on. With the platter on, I can easily stop the platter from rotating with a gentle touch, so still a torque problem. I guess I will just try a new idler ...?
 
Sounds like the idler rubber is too hard. How's the motor torque at the shaft?
 
JP said:
Sounds like the idler rubber is too hard. How's the motor torque at the shaft?
Click to expand...

Torque at the shaft is good, so I think I will order up a new idler. Gonna order from the voice of music unless there is a better option?
 
Terry's Rubber Rollers is another option. Don't know if its better or worse, but I have used both Terry and Gary at TVOM with good results. Terry rebuilds your actual idler, Gary does a "core exchange" sort of program where you send your old one in and he sends a rebuilt one back.

I have had some marginal success with chucking those things in a drill and sanding them, but honestly once they get really hard there is no fixing it other than replacing the idler wheel.
 
I placed an order with TVOM. Old roller is packed up and ready to ship to him. The old one doesn't seem that hard, but this is my first experience with an idler, so I am not sure how soft it should be. I guess I will know soon, when I receive the replacement....
 
Well, got my new roller (idler) from TVOM, works well, now all the mechanics work perfectly, except it still runs 1.3 RPMs slow. I disassembled the motor, cleaned and freshly oiled...anything else I can do? FYI it runs slow at all speeds, so what else could it be but the motor? Any way to tweak it?
 
...And GOOD torque. When the platter is spinning and I put my finger on it it keeps spinning nicely.
 
From what I've been able to determine, the 40MkII is a renamed model 50, and uses an induction motor. Later on Garrard went mostly to Synchronous motors.

An induction motor's speed is dependent upon frequency and load. If you increase the load on the motor it slows down. If drop the mains voltage and then increase the load by the same amount the speed will slow down further.

So, assuming the idler is good, look for any sources of drag on the motor/platter. Given that it was serviced I assume it has fresh bearing grease, etc. After that you only have your AC power which you can't do much about.
 
kirk57 said:
From what I've been able to determine, the 40MkII is a renamed model 50, and uses an induction motor. Later on Garrard went mostly to Synchronous motors.

An induction motor's speed is dependent upon frequency and load. If you increase the load on the motor it slows down. If drop the mains voltage and then increase the load by the same amount the speed will slow down further.

So, assuming the idler is good, look for any sources of drag on the motor/platter. Given that it was serviced I assume it has fresh bearing grease, etc. After that you only have your AC power which you can't do much about.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that is what I feared. Oddly, if I let run for a while it will get up to spread. I think the motor is just not working well. Gonna take it apart one more time and make sure everything is lubed right.
 
You may also look closely at the idler. I struggled with a Dual that had the same problem. I had the motor out half a dozen times looking for the gremlin. What I eventually noticed was the profile of the newly rebuilt idler. Compared to an original I saw that the original part had a tapered, not squared, edge. I chucked it in a drill and tapered the edge with a fine tooth file. The table came up to perfect speed after that!
 
number13 said:
You may also look closely at the idler. I struggled with a Dual that had the same problem. I had the motor out half a dozen times looking for the gremlin. What I eventually noticed was the profile of the newly rebuilt idler. Compared to an original I saw that the original part had a tapered, not squared, edge. I chucked it in a drill and tapered the edge with a fine tooth file. The table came up to perfect speed after that!
Click to expand...

My old idler was flat profile like the replacement from tvom... But thanks!
 
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