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Garrard LAB 80: Specs and reasonable expectations

Here's some pictures of it hooked up for testing (it didn't come with a single play spindle, just the changer and 45rpm adapter, so I borrowed one from the Miracord temporarily):
Stack, you're pretty lucky to have two LP stacking spindles for the Lab 80. They're a pretty hard to find accessory with one up for auction now on the 'bay starting at $75.

Your post has me on the verge of getting my Lab 80 work underway this year, finally. I bought one locally a couple years ago cheap on CL and have yet to even try running it. I purchased a parts unit chassis, new bearings and some other stuff. Time to stop amassing more TT's and work on what I already have! Please continue to share your progress. I know Gadget73 knows a thing or two about these units as well. Reading up on these after I brought it home had me a little intimidated. Since then I've had success getting a couple Dual 12XX series changers and a Miracord 10 in good order, so I believe I'm a better mechanic today. Such a great looking deck, there's a cool photo out there of Sir Paul McCartney standing by his Lab 80.
 
I didn't do any further surgery on the Garrard last night, but I did have a chance to spin a couple records on it and do some tests. The attached test is a sample of what it's looking like when warmed up now.

In that test the speed is dead on and the wow/flutter is sitting at around .1%. I'm satisfied in saying that this exceeds my expectations of a 60 year old idler changer turntable with a shaded 4 pole motor. Most likely the speed will fluctuate somewhat, but if it sits between plus or minus half a percent that's more than good enough for me.

More importantly, this table has almost no rumble and seems to track very well with the medium compliance carts I've tried it with. I was listening to some Ray Charles and it sounded just excellent coming from this table.

On a more personal note about them, since both tables I found seem to have come from the same home, I can say that I know who the original owner was since he left his full name address and phone number labeled on the other table. He was fellow one town over who died in 1977. If these tables have been mothballed since his death, and it's possible with how much dirt was on them when I got them and the fact that they noth came with what seemed to be their original carts, then this is the first time either of them has sung in 50 years.

I'm not going to leave well enough alone with working manual play, though. I want the automatic functions. Old posts from GP49, who seemed to have particular knowledge on these decks, indicated that the problem I'm seeing requires complete disassembly of the mechanism to clean the main gear, but that it should only ever have to be done once with more modern grease.

As soon as I can steel myself to do this, I will. I'm not overly intimidated since I've pulled apart and fixed more complicated mechanical machines than a turntable before, it's more about finding an uninterrupted bit of time to do it when I have a kitchen halfway through remodeling, a sick toddler in the house, and a holiday travel season fast approaching. I'm determined to see it happen so it will, bit it might take me a minute to do it.
 

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The flavor of table that I’m stuck in is the Garrard Zero series. Initially, all of the old frozen grease had me beat. I starting using a heat gun to un-seize everything. Disassembly, clean, lube, new platter bearings, motor serviced. Cleaned up the rubber wheel (replaced on other tables). Their a remarkable table when their all done.
 

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One more stat post, just because it impressed me so much.

I ran this test after listening to some Bob Dylan yesterday, inspired by the fact that his harmonica riffs are usually a torture test for tables suffering from bad wow and flutter but yesterday they sounded completely fine. The numbers it put up, a literally perfectly on point speed and wow and flutter well below .1%, far exceed what I thought a deck like this could acheive, particularly in its old age.

So it seems like the answer to my own original question is that, under the right conditions, you can expect stellar performance out of these old Garrards.

While the Garrard was playing, I was testing out my Miracord 50H. it seems like the rumble is coming from the motor or the mounts, based on the fact that there was still rumble even when I disconnected the idler and set the needle down on a stationary record, and will require some trial and error to fix. I do have a parts table to swap things over so that'll have to be fixed.

My plan now is this:
1) Work on the Garrard to get the auto functions working. Keep the Miracord in rotation while doing this.

2) When the Garrard is serviced, swap it in and work on the Miracord's issues.

3) Depending on how all of that goes, decide which one of those two will stay in rotation as my main table for the next little while.
 

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Have you tried foam in the springs?
In the Miracord yes. Haven't gotten around to it in the Garrard yet, though I know it also needs that as part of the suspension.

For the Miracord: When I get around to it, I'm probably going to try swapping motors first (my parts Miracord table looks barely used, it would be my main table if not for an unfortunate shipping tragedy.)

If it's not the motor, then it's the bushings/mounts. At that point I'll have to get creative, since as far as I know, you can't get replacements for those. I would probably start with some universal mounts I found online (somebody claimed that they may work for Miracords,) barring that maybe trying to make my own with some silicone gasket maker and designed 3d printed molds, and if that doesn't work maybe cobbling something together with hardware store grommets.
 
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Update:

The main surgery is done. The patient survived.

It turned out to be less complicated than I thought it was going to be. Basically, the center shaft for the automatic gear assembly was full of gunk that needed to be cleaned out. The gunk was holding the gear up just enough that it would stay put when the autotrip engaged, so the autptrip was working but it would relatch itself before the gear could move.

Once it was cleaned up, the gear turned freely enough for everything to turn when the autotrip engaged. Thus, we now have a LAB 80 that's (mostly) fully working!

Mostly. I'll come back to that.

Here's the basics on my process:

To get the shaft out, I had to first take off the platter and undo the nut holding the top of the center shaft in place. Everything else happens on the bottom so tuen I glipped over the deck.

Next I removed the spring attached to the arm that engages the mute switch. Then I removed the housing over the RCA terminal output (remove the clip holding it to the standoff with needle nosed pliers, pull the housing out over the standoff, unhook from the metal at the lower corner.)

Next the triangular bracket at the top of the gear assembly had to come out. I removed the clip onnthe remaining standoff, unscrewed the other standoff (this one has a ling screw running through a loose standoff so I set that whole assembly aside) and undid the nut on the other side of the center shaft.

From here I removed the pot metal part that engages the autochanger. This was very gummed up so it took a little doing to get it out, but it did come out.

Next I removed the center shaft itself, keeping the main gear in position. There was a captive washer on the other side of the main gear, so I took care to make sure it stayed in place underneath the gear (it didn't stay.) The spring tension on the main follower did pull the gear a little bit out of position, but this wasn't too big of a deal.

Next I cleaned the shaft, inside of the gear, and inside of the autichanger piece with a spray degreaser (Remmington gun cleaner) and a cloth / Q-tips. Regreased with a light machine oil (Remmington gun oil, which I find works well in these sorts of applications.)

Then I reassembled basically in the reverse order.

That captive washer was a little bit of a pain, but I was able to reposition it with a dental pick, follow through with a screwdriver to get it all lined up while I held the gear in position, then reinstert the center shaft. The pot metal autochnager part has to be keyed with a peg so I kade sure that was positioned correctly, then it was basic reassembly making sure all of the washers were where they were supposed to go.

Overall it was a 20 minute process. I took pictures along the way, which helped.

So now the deck is mostly working with a handful of caveats.

Firstly, the positioning of the tonearm after a record drops isn't fully consistent. sometimes it drops a little ways into the record. I assume that this is something getting gummed up.

Second, as user loudnoises alluded to for my Miracord, this deck needs new foam in the suspension. Even the slightest footfall will cause the record to skip.

Third, the base is sagging after 60 years of having a heavy turntable mech sitting in it. this doesn't seem to be impacting anything but is worth noting.

Finally, something went off with the wow and flutter during this whole operation. I probably touched the inner rim of the platter with my greasy mitts at some point, so I'll have to look at that. Or maybe it'll sort itself out after a couple hours of play, who knows.

For the moment, I consider that good enough to stand in for the Miracord. It's more or less doing what it's supposed to, so it'll be getting some work for now.
 

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In the Miracord yes. Haven't gotten around to it in the Garrard yet, though I know it also needs that as part of the suspension.

For the Miracord: When I get around to it, I'm probably going to try swapping motors first (my parts Miracord table looks barely used, it would be my main table if not for an unfortunate shipping tragedy.)

If it's not the motor, then it's the bushings/mounts. At that point I'll have to get creative, since as far as I know, you can't get replacements for those. I would probably start with some universal mounts I found online (somebody claimed that they may work for Miracords,) barring that maybe trying to make my own with some silicone gasket maker and designed 3d printed molds, and if that doesn't work maybe cobbling something together with hardware store grommets.
Soap and water does wonders on old rubber

Use ear plugs for damping the springs
 
the main cycle cam being stuck on its axle pin is a problem with most of these. Some are more stuck than others, not so bad when you can get the pin out but it really sucks when its completely seized together. I don't remember if it was my RC88 or the Zero-100 but one of them needed acetone dripped in there to dissolve it enough to get the thing apart.
 
As of today, I'm several steps forward but seem to have also taken a step backwards.

In the forward department, I tracked down the issue with the drop position to just having the antiskate set incorrectly. That was causing the arm to nudge forward as it was being dropped. Setting it correctly fixed the issue.

I also found some earplugs in the garage, so should be able to refoam the suspension pretty easily. If the old foam is anything like that in the IBM Selectric I repaired, it'll disintegrate on contact with the end of a vacuum cleaner, so I'll just suck it out through the springs and replace.

For the big step back, the issue I'm suddenly having with wow and flutter doesn't seem to have anything to do with the rim of the table or idler being dirty, so something happened while I repaired the mechanism. I'm wondering if maybe a bearing worked its way loose while the table was upside down since I'm also hearing a very gentle "knocking" sort of noise coming from the spindle, so that'll probably be the first thing I check.

Not a big deal. I do have another LAB 80 to borrow some from for the moment, and a bike shop down the street that'll be open tomorrow so I can buy some new ones. If I remember correctly, they're just standard 3/32" chrome steel ball bearings.

If it's not the bearing, I also remember hearing that maybe the magnetic trip can sometimes cause issues if the magnets are set too close, so that might be something else. I'm not sure how that would've happened, but maybe something leaned on the mechanism at some point without me noticing, so I'll just keep it in mind if nothing else works.

As far as the Miracord goes, I found the old AK post with the dimensions of the rubber grommets. I've decided that, instead of tearing apart my tables first thing, I'm going to try to make a 3d printed mold to make new grommets out of cold set silicone and see how that goes. That'll require a bit of research on my part, but it seems like it's probably the most likely cause of issues, since I know that the mounts in the Miracord were sagging when I got it. I do have some experience making 3d printed parts for typewriters and such in FreeCAD, but haven't made molds before.
 
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I'm also hearing a very gentle "knocking" sort of noise coming from the spindle, so that'll probably be the first thing I check.
If it's knocking when it's just the platter spinning hopefully you've just got a little bit of something in there. The bearing should clean up well, but you should consider one of the audiovault upgrades. They're a huge bang for buck, especially if yours are showing wear. I've put them on duals and garrard, the miracord will get one (and an idler) at some point. They also tend to fit a bunch of models so they can follow your current tinkering to a new table if one appears.
 
Definitely using the earplug idea. Probably tonight. I'm already getting annoyed with it skipping every time I walk across the room.
for heavy springs, like on a Thorens or Pioneer, I have had success putting an old piece of a bicycle inner tube tight around the spring.
Cures the wobblyness
 
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